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IFC file exported from revit

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Does any one have an IFC file exported from Revit as we're trying to see how it reads in Autocad MEP 2010?

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ARCHdoc

Not sure why you would need a file xported to ifc from Revit to use in a MEP file. Why not just link them?

Why not export an IFC file form MEP and then import back into MEP?

 

I think I might be missing somethig here. :unsure:

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_E_

We are going to be sent 3d models from Revitt by a client and I just wondered how it would open in AutoCAD MEP?

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qbi

@ARCHdoc You cannot link REVIT file into ACAD MEP file? If yes, please show me how ?

 

@_E_ About the IFC file, it is easy to export IFC from revit, and it is easy to use it in ACAd MEP. We are doing this way for design purposes, but for presentation it is better to use for example NavisWorks

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tzframpton

IFC will work perfectly fine. Or you can just export as DWG too. Either way it'll work. :)

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_dk_

When an IFC file is created in Revit architecture and then imported into Autocad MEP is the project manager automatically set up with xrefs etc?

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tzframpton

You can only Import, that's why I usually export the 3D Model as a AutoCAD DWG format. Just makes life easier it seems.

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_E_

Ok, thanks for the replys.

 

So can you import a revit file and work with it or does it have to be an IFC file?

 

Also DK's comment was also relevant to my situation, does the project manager automatically load the xrefs when you inport it into to MEP from Revit arch?

 

Cheers

 

_E_

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tzframpton

AutoCAD files can be imported into Revit, however Revit cannot be imported into AutoCAD.

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_dk_

Revit MEP provides IFC import and fully certified export based on the latest IAI IFC2x2 data exchange standard. When you export a Revit MEP building information model to IFC format, the information can be used directly by other building specialists, such as structural and building services engineers.

For example, building information models developed with Revit MEP are saved to the RVT file format. You can export the building model using the IFC format to an IFC-certified application that does not use the RVT file format. The drawing can be opened and worked on in the non-native application. Similarly, in Revit MEP you can import an IFC file, create a RVT file, and work on the building model in Revit MEP.

IFC uses architecturally meaningful containers to describe real-world building objects. Those containers include parameters that have meaningful values. Many standard Revit MEP elements have corresponding IFC containers. These do not require any specific user action to export them. (For example, Revit walls export as IFCwalls.)

 

Does this help _E_?

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tzframpton

Eh, most of the time if you're dealing with AutoCAD MEP you only really need the file for coordination purposes. :)

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_dk_

What I'm trying to say is - if you have a very large building made in Revit. Is it possible to import the Revit file into Autocad MEP so that it coordinates with the project manager. This way you dont have the whole building on one dwg and can use the project manager to navigate around the building i.e. different levels, sections of the building will be on diffeent dwgs? I understood that if you had an IFC exported from Revit that this is possible?

 

The job we're doing is a very large building with lots of different sections and levels and we have to co-ordinate the services for the whole building in Autocad MEP. To have all that information one dwg would cause massive slowdown and be impossible to work in.

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_E_

Yeah

 

DK, thats what the kind of project I'm working on aswell.

 

Can people confirm this?

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tzframpton

Hmmm, I don't know about Revit being able to split everything up in an export. It seems like you would have to manually do this by creating a Project in AutoCAD MEP, and then using Constructs to divide the "Levels". I've always just used the entire building, and fine tune my layer control in multiple AutoCAD files that represented each floor. Works great, since I usually work in Plan view anyways. Doesn't bog me down one bit. :)

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ARCHdoc
What I'm trying to say is - if you have a very large building made in Revit. Is it possible to import the Revit file into Autocad MEP so that it coordinates with the project manager. This way you dont have the whole building on one dwg and can use the project manager to navigate around the building i.e. different levels, sections of the building will be on diffeent dwgs? I understood that if you had an IFC exported from Revit that this is possible?

 

The job we're doing is a very large building with lots of different sections and levels and we have to co-ordinate the services for the whole building in Autocad MEP. To have all that information one dwg would cause massive slowdown and be impossible to work in.

 

When exporting from Revit you can export the model as a 3d building or you can export any individual view to a dwg file. So if you need each level as a separate x-ref for you background, for example, get your architect ot export the Revit file from the plan, elevation and section views rather than the 3d view. Would this help?

Sory I am not familiar with Autocad MEP. Do you use it in a 3d capacity or 2d?

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CKinNC

I've done the export to IFC per contract on a job and our client is having us do this because they want to use tekla for the collision checking. for me where the problem is is getting that IFC model back from the client with new information in it and trying to input the IFC file back into Revit or even worse case AutoCAD mep 2011. We typicaly prefer to use CAD MEP due to our add on software.

 

I am having serious issues as stated with the IFc inport. Right now my machine has been crunching a file for over 20 hours and it is only halfway there. any ideas?

 

sorry if i am hijacking this thread it is the first one i found talking about IFC files.

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Interop

CKinNC

How you manage the file size issue depends on how complex the model is. As we all know a 500K Sq. Ft office bldg is not as complex (MEP wise) as a 500K Sq Ft. Hospital.

I coordinate in Tekla and use IFCxml.zip imports which work great, for Solibri & Navis I use IFC or dwg, depends on what I'm trying to do. Likewise I can export the IFCxml.zip format from Tekla (Steel, Concrete, etc) to MEP detailing programs like CAD Duct. Not sure if Revit MEP or ACAD MEP supports IFCxml? I've never tried. As for your issue, I need more details of what you are exporting from and importing to in order get a better understanding of what you're trying to achieve. I assume all you need the files for is coordination? If all else fails, only solution might be to break the model into smaller sections. This of course makes more work for you and the recipient. As for exporting from Revit, there might be a 3rd party "add on" that enables a user to export/import to/from an IFCxml zip format. It's worth looking into. Let me know anyone finds anything out there. In the mean time keep pushing software vendors to solve this dimema. It cost all of us a lot of money to come up with work arounds and band aid solutions.

 

I attached a study of IFC file formats that was put together by Andy Robins of MAP software. See the write up below (green text) and image of write/read speeds. BTW, BIX is a format developed by MAP software, so keep that in mind.

 

IFC2x3 will generate huge files in presentation mode (100’s Mb) slowest and biggest for write

IFCXML again huge files, but more structured, or tokenised, slow and big.

IFCXMLzip Compress IFCXML so a lot smaller, faster writing, but as slow as IFCXML for reading because its decompressed to one big buffer in memory first.

BIX is Binary, therefore FAST and SMALL both reading and writing.

IFC_Formats.png.

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CKinNC

interop thank you for your reply.

 

what I am getting is IFC files from the client for structural steel and concrete. The concrete one runs fine once imported and converted into both a revit file or a auctocad dwg. The steel however does not. the file size if 50MB and just makes our systems crawl. the client is stating that their BIM expert (guy who is not working on this job but is in another office somewhere) says they will not break it down into each floor level. ALL of my fellow subs on this job are having issues with this steel file. I found out last night it was oringally created in Poland with some software that was not typically used in the US. Hence the IFC formats we are being asked to use. to convert the IFC file in REvit took 18 hours and some of the steel is no longer positioned correctly. To import it into AutoCAd 2011 MEP took 35 hours and it came in without issue. both conversions tasked my machine and used 26GB of RAM to run and just crawl when used.

 

We have been forced to recreate the steel in order to keep moving on this project. (liquidated damages if we do not deliver the BIM model in 8 weeks).

 

We have delivered more than required on first go and our DWG file for the 4 story building was 21MB for just the piping and duct mains only, once convereted to IFC that file is now 71MB and it works better than the smaller steel file that we are all having issues with.

 

I am planning on pushing the client today into breaking down the model by floor, this is a very high end research facility and there is a TON of systems us subs must show and install in a very limited space. This building is worse than the last two hospitals I've worked on with the amount of systems being installed.

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Interop

That's more an issue with Autocad MEP, more so than the IFC file. Granted, IFC has improvements to make when it comes to making it a more “efficient” file transfer format, which is precisely why more users need to push their vendors to get with it. As for ACAD, it was never meant to handle that level of detail, keep in mind when the platform was developed, there was no such thing as BIM or IFC so you really can’t fault it. Here's a good test. Go to Solibri's site and download their free IFC viewer and open the IFC file in Solibri. See how that reacts with your processor and RAM. It's always good practice to test on different platforms so you can isolate the issue. Also, to make the file transfer a little easier (bandwidth wise) suggest to your client to zip up the IFC file. That will reduce the size a lot.

If the steel fabricator is using Tekla, which I think is a great tool by the way, tell them to not export all the detail. There's an option in Tekla to exclude bolts, washers, welds, etc. You don't need that level of detail for MEP coordination. Excluding that level of detail will reduce the file size considerably. I work for a GC (at least this is my last week) so I can understand the reasons behind your client wanting to reduce the number of models they have to manage. It's a good workflow once you get used to it, but there’s much planning and training that needs to take place prior to jumping into it.

As for your detailing software, it surprises me that you don’t use TSI/MAP or Quickpen. Do you have some kind of software solution tied to your fabrication equipment?

Oh, one last thing. It's not a good idea to get that kind of detail (steel fabrication) into Revit. It will literally blow up Revit. Revit is good for design but is not made for detailing an entire building. Anybody who tells you different is not being honest with you. I can't tell you how many horror stories I've heard from subs trying to make Revit work for them. It’s not a tool for subs. Don’t get me wrong, Revit is a great tool which I’m sure Bentley, Graphisoft or others will debate, my point is those are applications built for design or engineering. Like they say, you need the right tool for the right job.

I applaud you and your client for working towards making interoperability a reality. Don't give up! Once you get it down you're going to have a big edge over your competition! If you’re on Linked In, look up the Interoperability Group. It’s called Interoperable Systems Using BIM. People need to hear stories like yours to fully understand the issues caused by lack of interoperability.

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