Block insertion trouble

[theduc749]

On my civil drafting project plate 1 I am trying to insert my Tree block and i type the coords in and it ends up way off screen but I insert a point at the same coords and it goes right where it needs to. What am I doing wrong?

 

Moderator can remove this post....figured it out on my own by placing my tree on origin 0,0 and then creating block. not sure why that is the way it is but I got it to work for what I need it to do.

Edited November 14, 2012 by theduc749

[ReMark]

Whenever I create a block I always try picking a point on the block itself as my base point. I never use 0,0,0 as my base point. Now when I insert the block I can see it attached to the crosshairs.

 

BTW...If this civil project (plate 1) is part of the Penn-Foster AutoCAD course I suggest that you post future questions in the AutoCAD Beginners' Area > Student Project Questions sub-forum.

[Patrick Hughes]

Whenever I create a block I always try picking a point on the block itself as my base point. I never use 0,0,0 as my base point. Now when I insert the block I can see it attached to the crosshairs.

 

Funny, I always do exactly the opposite. I move my geometry to 0,0,0 before creating the block then select 0,0,0 as the basepoint. Now when I insert the block I can see it attached to the crosshairs.

 

Here is the reason I do it this way. When you are selecting a point on the geometry the assigned insertion base point becomes a random point. Now if you for whatever reason wblock out that block the random point is retained. Often what can then happen is you open the newly created drawing and you discover that the geometry is somewhere out in space unrelated to 0,0,0 so you move the geometry to something that is relative to 0,0,0 and you don't realize that you now need to adjust the basepoint. Everything is hunky dorry until a couple of hours later when you go to insert your shiny new drawing and hmmm, why isn't my geometry aligned with my crosshair.

[JD Mather]

When you are selecting a point on the geometry the assigned insertion base point becomes a random point. ....

 

Funny, I have always done it this way and it never became random (that I am aware of).

I have never bothered to move something to 0,0 before creating a block.

 

Can you post step-by-step example to create simple block and reproduce this random behavior?

Edited November 14, 2012 by JD Mather

[ReMark]

I've never experienced the random behavior you (Patrick) have alluded too either.

[Patrick Hughes]

Hmm, I just tested this out in two ways (keep in mind I am on r14 but I would not think this kind of behavior would change between releases)

 

Test 1) Open a drawing, issue the block command, name the block. Pick the base point of the intersection of two lines and select geometry. WBlock the newly created block. Open the new wblocked drawing, the two of you are correct, there is no randomness to the insbase (it is at 0,0,0).

 

Test 2) Open a drawing, issue the Wblock command, name the block. Pick a base point on the intersection of two lines and select geometry. Now when I open the newly created drawing and examine the INSBASE variable it is a random number.

 

I do not normally create a block then wblock the block. typically I'll almost always work as I described in test two - which is where I've observed the behavior.

[Patrick Hughes]

Please allow me to clarify something. I used the word random and that implies that the insbase would not have any relation to the pick point. That is not what I meant, my intent was that the point is a random point "in space". The resulting insbase is relative to the geometry that was picked and the resulting insbase is relative to the WCS but the result is not 0,0,0.

 

In the case of my test 2 scenario the resulting insbase had a value of New value for INSBASE : *Cancel*

 

This is where trouble can enter the picture. If a user opens the wblocked file and sees the geometry out in space somewhere, the inclination is to move the geometry to 0,0,0. When this happens without changing the INSBASE to 0,0,0 subsequent insertions of that file will display the geometry away from the cursor.

 

This is also complicated when the wblocking is performed when a UCS is active.

[ReMark]

Random numbers don't bother me. As long as the block, when inserted, is attached to my crosshairs I really don't care. If it is all the way back at 0,0,0 and I'm trying to insert it in a drawing with coordinates that run seven digits then that is going to bother me...a whole lot more. I see this quite a bit with Penn-Foster students working on the civil project (a subdivision). Somehow or other many of them have their block insertion point at 0,0,0 but the state plane coordinates they are working with are so huge the block they insert is a very tiny spec buried deep in the lower left hand corner of their screen while the subdivision is a slightly larger spec in the far upper right hand corner of their screen. Then the OMG moment hits them.

[Patrick Hughes]

Random numbers don't bother me. As long as the block, when inserted, is attached to my crosshairs I really don't care.QUOTE]

 

Fair enough, Try my scenario no. two, open the new drawing and move the geometry to 0,0,0 like I described. Save then open a new drawing and insert.

 

My only point is that this is how the mysteries occur.

[ReMark]

Since that is a method I would never use I don't see the point of the experiment.

[Patrick Hughes]

Well the point isn't really about you ReMark, the OP was experiencing an anomaly (Block insertion trouble) which I attempted to offer an explanation that was met with doubt. I'm certain there are a vast number of methods that you would never use. I suppose if you chose to remain in the dark about possible causes for trouble there is nothing I can do about that.

[ReMark]

Maybe you need to rethink the way you create your blocks.

Edited November 15, 2012 by ReMark
left out two words

[Patrick Hughes]

LOL - especially to your deleted comment.

[ReMark]

Well Patrick you are the first person, I have encountered, to ever mention the randomness of the coordinates of an inserted block being problematic. The first. That makes you unique. Take pride in your accomplishments. Own them.

 

Yes, I deleted my first response. I didn't like it.

[Patrick Hughes]

Well I won't engage in a pissing contest beyond this point but yes I am unique and I have no problem whatsoever owning my words, accomplishments or whatever you want to assign to me.

 

As I previously stated, the OP posted a question regarding the subject we are discussing and I answered with what I have experienced and witnessed. You may not have ever seen this behavior and it may have no significance in your day to day work. My guess is that you may not use a lot of automation in your routine because these types of problems can cause havoc if they are not accounted for.

 

Edit: If you re-read the OP, his description of his problem fits exactly what I have described, that is: "and it ends up way off screen" If that isn't random then I don't know what random is. Perhaps it depends on what the meaning of is is.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Patrick Hughes

[ReMark]

I'm willing to bet the OP's problem is not the same as yours. Say $10? I'm not Mitt Romney and I'm pretty sure I don't earn anywhere near what you make. LoL

[Patrick Hughes]

According to the OP he resolved his problem, do you want to guess how?

 

"figured it out on my own by placing my tree on origin 0,0 and then creating block. not sure why that is the way it is but I got it to work for what I need it to do"

 

I accept PayPal.

[ReMark]

I'd rather send you cash. You can PM me your address.