Raster Images convert to objects?

[rkmcswain]

A moderator has already requested civility in this thread

 

That was in post 12.....

 

Any further inflammatory comments and this thread will be closed.

 

.... and I don't see anything "inflammatory" in posts 13-19 ?

[Cad64]

Check post #18

 

No appology necessary...I'm used to the insulting arrogance of self-proclaimed "internet experts".

[grandcanyonplanet]

Between the ~45 messages in the three forums that I am aware of, I think we have all come to the conclusion that unless you dig up this old scanner/software combo, you're out of luck.

Maybe someone will come along with knowledge of a new 3rd party "Paper2DXB" hardware/software combo, but I wouldn't hold out for it. I suppose if there is enough demand for such an item, a supplier will pop up though.

So is this a new task that you have to do now, that did not exist for the past 15 years?

What I'm driving at is what have you been doing about this for the past 15 years?

What started this query this week?

I do electrical engineering and design work, and have not been involved with the nuts and bolts of AutoCAD (except as a designer) much since 2006, and haven't really been involved with conversion of scanned files since around 2000.

 

Started AutoCAD on version 2.6, and pen-and-ink before that. I think we all know that there are at least 3 ways to accomplish each and every autocad command.

 

I just recently got involved with a project where many of the design drawings were XREF'd TIFFs, and the department was complaining about dealing with broken links and missing raster files from all of their users (repair technicians).

 

The first thing we did was "embed" all the raster images to avoid this broken link issue.

Now, we have no broken Xrefs issues, or having to email a seperate TIFF file along with the drawing.

At least NOW they all exist inside the single DWG file itself.

 

But, that still leaves the issue of being able to edit them (the way we did in 1997!) with the normal autocad commands. We are a HUGE company, and very few departments have (or even want) Raster Design software. Some only have DWG "viewing" software. So, I seek a solution to convert the Raster Images to vectors that still maintains their linewidths. To create a "hybrid" that is as good as the original hand drawings. The typical vectorization software's "trace the centerline" with a zero-width polyline is unacceptable, and should be unnecessary.

 

In other words, say an excellent (hand-drawn) mylar Floorplan is scanned and brought in, and then a small section of it is masked/erased and normal cad tools are used for the renovations in one small area of the drawing!

 

One smart fellow (Alfred.Neswadba) from another site understood immediately what a "Hybrid" file was, and suggested a solid hatch to mask with, and that could work, but I'd really like to see if I can find the software solution (part of the old scanner) that used to work so well (DXBIN to layer 7 as polylines, WITH the width data intact). Or it's equal.

 

Because there are also issues of the embedded Raster File not showing (and not plotting) from inside in some of the "view" programs.

And, I also want users to be able to move/rotate sections of the image with normal autocad tools.

 

If they were polylines (with the original scanned line width!), they would show up, and could be moved/rotated/erased without special plug-in/add-on software.

 

And they've already scanned thousands of drawings to TIFF, so I'm trying to find a TIFFtoDXB, or DXF or DWG conversion...not a Paper2DXB.

Edited August 16, 2013 by grandcanyonplanet

[Cad64]

Also, what surprised me was to come to a site that says "CAD Tutor" (ie: teach, instruct, etc), claiming to be "one of the most friendly forums on the web" and get insulting post like this in response...

 

Please don't base your opinion of the entire forum on the replies of just one member. We all have opinions, and you may not appreciate his, but you can't reply with comments like you did in post #18. We don't allow fighting in the forum and that's why I posted my comment about closing the thread if it goes any further. You have said your piece, so lets move on and stick to the topic of the thread.

[grandcanyonplanet]

^^^Already have Cad64...I'm well past it as of post 23!

 

Do you recall what brand scanner it was? That sounds like a cool way to do it honestly. Sounds like an on-board OCR type thing then. Huh, learn something new everyday

 

Sean

I think it was a Contex, Sean. I'm digging through old pictures of the office to see if I have any of the scanner! LOL!

 

I will find a solution, even if I have to write it in lisp VB .NET, or whatever!

Sure wish I remembered the Scanner/software.

 

The boss at the time was going to invest in a $16K vectorization processing hardware card, and we decided the "Hybrid" files created from the DXB were actually better!

I'm just kinda shocked that things haven't gotten any better in the "conversion" and "vectorization" area.

Edited August 16, 2013 by grandcanyonplanet

[RobDraw]

Actually, at the time I wrote that post, there were no insults intended. From my experience, using polylines for general lineweight would not work in a collaborative environment and I have not seen that method used, ever. The only exception would be for drawings that were exported from some other drafting software or possibly that scanner. I did not realize that was your preferred method of drawing beyond the raster to vector conversion. Which, by the way, would be totally awesome as you described it. I tried to ask about that scanner in my FIRST post and added that I would like to see one of those DXF files. I was genuinely interested.

 

Once again, I'm sorry that you found my comments insulting.

[grandcanyonplanet]

It's all good Rob! Life is too short to let the little stuff bother me for long. Good communication....that's they key! LOL!

When I was young, I used to hold stuff in and "stew" about it. It's ALL good my AutoCAD brother!

 

Yes, that scanner (still looking for pictures, tearing apart the old shoe-boxes!) was amazing.

In thinking about it further maybe it brought in the scan as "Trace" entities...does that sound familier?

But they were a perfect reproduction of the scanned data (in little micro-segments that duplicated the lines/width), and when plotted out you couldn't tell the difference between the original and the scanned/plotted image.

 

And, best of all you could "select" and "move/rotate/erase" them with normal tools, and then select and blow away small areas of them, and create sections of the drawing (revisions) with normal lines and polylines and such. All in the same "hybrid" drawing...easy to email and archive or maintain.

 

Why they ever got away from that, and went to this external/embedded TIFF idea I don't know! Maybe to sell Raster Design software, I guess.

Or because the "image" world has standardized on TIFF/JPEG.

 

They were the PERFECT (minimal cleanup, if any!) solution for Hybrid files! All manipulated with normal autocad commands.

I wonder if the AutoCAD "trace" entity even still exists! LOL!

Edited August 16, 2013 by grandcanyonplanet

[rkmcswain]

I'm just kinda shocked that things haven't gotten any better in the "conversion" and "vectorization" area.

 

I don't think it's a matter of "things not getting better", but as mentioned earlier, there is just no demand for this technology and hence no supplier for it.

Best wishes in your endeavor.

[grandcanyonplanet]

I don't think it's a matter of "things not getting better", but as mentioned earlier, there is just no demand for this technology and hence no supplier for it.

Best wishes in your endeavor.

Thanks, RK!

 

I looked at the old scanned files and did a list on them, and they actually were DXBIN'd as autocad "trace" entities.

 

They were a perfect reproduction of the original scan linework (including linewidths), AND best of all the entities could be selected and rotated, moved, copied, or erased (even small areas) and new cadwork revisions made on those sections.

 

ALL in one DWG file that needed no external or "plug-in" software.

 

It was a beautiful thing, and I'd like to find a similar "conversion" solution for our current thousands of embedded TIFFs issue.

 

GOAL: One DWG file, all inclusive of the Hybrid information, and editable with normal autocad commands. There sure should be a demand for that!

Maybe in Autocad 2016!? LOL!

[Chilidawg]

GOAL: One DWG file, all inclusive of the Hybrid information, and editable with normal autocad commands. There sure should be a demand for that!

 

One DWG to rule them all

One DWG to find them

One DWG to bring them all

and in the model space, bind them!

[f700es]

One DWG to rule them all

One DWG to find them

One DWG to bring them all

and in the model space, bind them!

 

Bwhahahahahahaha, good one

[grandcanyonplanet]

One DWG to rule them all

One DWG to find them

One DWG to bring them all

and in the model space, bind them!

EXACTLY!

 

This TIFF/XREF/embedded, special software add-in/Raster Design :roll:"plug-in" stuff is BOGUS!

 

I've seen better (years ago!) with my own eyes.

Is anyone actually doing any software-based vectorization to get this stuff INTO the file?

Edited August 16, 2013 by grandcanyonplanet

[SLW210]

ALL in one DWG file that needed no external or "plug-in" software.

 

I think you are missing the point, YOU DID use a plug-in to get what you wanted, it was integrated with your scanner, so you need to be looking for a Scanner to scan to .dxb.

 

If this option is no longer available for scanners, then it was the scanner manufacturers that decided not to continue this implementation, NOT AUTODESK.

 

In the interim, Autodesk has provided Raster Design to convert Raster to Vector, there is also available Illustrator and several other programs that will do most of what you want.

[grandcanyonplanet]

Not at all missing the point... I repeat, I'm trying to bring in the raster file into the DWG as true autocad entities, but with linewidth preserved...not just zero-width polylines!

 

We used to do it with the scanner as TRACE elements in a DXB file.

I don't understand the difficulty of that question. Most folks seem to understand the intent, but a few seem to want to bicker about it as being "old school" or non-standard.

 

as I mentioned in the original post:

 

QUESTION: does anyone know how to convert an "embedded raster image" into a DXB image?

The scanner used to do the work for me and save the image as DXB.

It was not a "vectorization program" exactly, but the raster lines DID became small polyline "Trace" segments in the process.

 

It was done 15years ago (yes, as a function of the scanner software) and there should be something similar today...

NOT just the typical lame "trace the centerline of the scanned lines with zero-width polylines" vectorization.

 

Bottom Line: Is ANYONE doing ANY software vectorization that duplicates the various linewidths of the original scan when it's finished????

 

Simple Question: TIFF to DXB, DXF, or DWG...vectorization that duplicates the original scan/raster images linewidths?

Edited August 16, 2013 by grandcanyonplanet