Retaining layer visibility when editing an xref using REFEDIT

[moatt]

I've spent days searching for the answer to this question, and I've had no luck. I have my base plan (which has all layers overlapping each other) XREF'd into my sheet file. I freeze unnecessary layers out of the sheet file and everything is perfect. When I need to make changes I prefer to use REFEDIT to edit the XREF from the sheet file, but sometimes my layers all become visible again. Sometimes they retain their visibility. It seems to be a per drawing variable, not a system wide variable, but I can't discover which variable it is. It's definitely not VISRETAIN.

 

I can't work in the confusing jumble of overlapping layers (hence why I prefer to use REFEDIT in the first place) and it is seriously impeding my work productivity. Does anyone know what I can do?

 

Thanks so much.

[moatt]

Bumping thread. This is still a huge problem for me and further research has yielded no results. Surely someone knows what can fix this.

 

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[moatt]

Bumping thread. Surely someone knows something...

[RobDraw]

Okay, I'll try but your question is not exactly clear, so a couple answers are necessary. Also, let me preface this with that I do not use REFEDIT to edit my XREFs. I tried it once or twice but did not like it. I don't remember why, though.

 

Is the layer state you are referring to within the XREF while in REFEDIT or in the sheet file?

 

Is it possible that REFEDIT is picking up whatever state that the XREF is in?

 

VISRETAIN is the variable that controls how a file handles the XREF layers. What setting are you using?

[moatt]

Thank you so much. Let me clarify:

 

I open the sheet file. Double click on the xref to open it in REFEDIT. It's the same XREF, but different sheet files. In some sheet files the layer visibility stays the same in the REFEDIT as it was in the sheet file. In some sheet files the layer visibility reverts to what it is in the XREF. I can't determine why some sheet files are reacting differently.

 

I've worked in firms where XREF's are only used for things like titleblocks and the main drawings are in the sheet files. In those files you look in model space and it's a crazy jumble of overlapping madness. But you work in paperspace so you can control layer visibility and make it workable.

 

I've worked in firms where the base files are XREF's, but the dimensions, electrical, notes, mechanical, etc are all drawn in the sheet files. In those files you can work in model space because all the of the confusing jumble of stuff is spread out amongst the sheet files.

 

This firm they put everything...and I mean EVERYTHING...in the base files. Then XREF it into the sheet files. The only thing in the sheet files is an XREF in modelspace and a titleblock in paperspace. The only way I can make sense of it is to work in the sheet files and use REFEDIT. But a few weeks ago it started acting funny, where the layer visibility doesn't stay how it was in the sheet file. The only way I can work in it is every single time I have to change something I open the XREF through REFEDIT and go through freezing all of the layers (which takes about 5-10 minutes). Once it's workable I do my work and then I save it and close the REFEDIT. But if I have to open it again I have to go through and freeze it all again. When it works correctly, I don't have to do all of the freezing in REFEDIT. Whatever was frozen in the sheet file stays that way in the REFEDIT.

[RobDraw]

I've dealt with those types of drawings before. They can be a layer management nightmare. First thing you need to do is get your head around that jumble of stuff. Layer management for XREFs is not usually done in the XREF file, therefore doing it in REFEDIT could be your problem. It won;t work. The exception would be if you have VISRETAIN set to 0, please see http://docs.autodesk.com/ACD/2010/ENU/AutoCAD%202010%20User%20Documentation/index.html?url=WS1a9193826455f5ffa23ce210c4a30acaf-4e05.htm,topicNumber=d0e359345.

 

The way I would approach it is to have all the layers in the XREF file on and thawed and layer management would be done through the viewports in the sheet files. It sounds like you are right there but you need to take REFEDIT out of the equation.

 

If that does not help your situation, please describe your sheet file(s) a little more. (Do they have more than one sheet in the same file? Do you have more than one sheet file? etc.)

[moatt]

They absolutely are a layer managements nightmare. The layer management is done completely in the sheet files. The problem is that when I need to edit the XREF, I can either go into the XREF itself (which would be a nightmare of freezing and thawing) or use REFEDIT. Sometimes REFEDIT remembers the layer visibility properties of the sheet file. Sometimes it doesn't. There has to be some variable that determines that, and I don't know what's determining that.

 

To try and clarify further I'll give an example (I would post the files, but client confidentiality and all). But one office building I'm working on right now has 30 sheets (not counting Structural, MEP and Civil files). Those 30 sheets are each a single dwg file with a single sheet in paperspace, so the name of the files are all like A0.00.dwg, A2.01.dwg, etc to show what sheet is in that file. The ONLY things in those files are the titleblock XREF'd into model space and various base files XREF'd in. There are also 7 different XREF base files (1 for the titleblock, 1 for elevations of the office building, 1 for elevations of the attached shop, 1 for the floor plan, 1 for the site plan, 1 for the roof plan and 1 for the building sections.) The main issue is plan_floor.dwg. 90% of those sheet files reference this floor plan. Any notes, ceiling grids, plumbing fixtures, text, lights, dimensions, walls, finish hatches, life safety information, ad nauseam is located in that file, all in overlapping jumble of mess. The people I work with just work directly in that base file with all the mess turned on. I don't know how they do it, because I can't. I have to have things in a semblance of order. If I'm moving light switches around, I need to just see the floor plan, ceiling grid, lights and switch layers plus lighting related text. So I XREF it into the sheet file and freeze everything but those layers in the viewport. So when I need to move those around I REFEDIT. And it's a 50/50 chance that it'll work like I need it to.

[moatt]

EUREKA!! Found it. My coworker said it works for him by setting VISRETAIN to 0 in the base file and to 1 in the sheet file. That doesn't work for me, I've tried it. But then I thought about one major difference in how we work. He works in model space all the time. I work in paper space all the time. That means that for me, the layers are viewport frozen. For him they're frozen in model space. I tested the theory and it worked. So for anyone who has this problem later on, here's the answer.

 

1. Open the XREF and set VISRETAIN to 0.

2. Open the sheet file and set VISRETAIN to 1.

3. Freeze the unneeded layers in model space.

 

If you follow those steps you can go to paper space (or stay in model space if that's your preference) and edit the XREF through REFEDIT and your layer states will stay like you have them. Just remember that if you freeze layers later in the viewport they won't translate over.

 

Alternatively (and this is what I plan to do) you could set your LAYFRZ command to freeze layers globally. This means that anything frozen in a viewport is frozen in every viewport, and not just in that viewport. Normally that would be ridiculous, but if you're like this firm and do things wrong...I mean differently...then you only have one sheet and that sheet will very rarely have the same base plan in multiple viewports showing different items on that sheet. By changing this variable, you'd never need to go to modelspace again!

 

Thanks again RobDraw. I'd have never worked this out without you talking it through with me. I appreciate your help immensely.

[Dadgad]

Always nice when there is a happy ending!

Glad you were able to think it through.

 

Just in case you are unfamiliar with the SYSVDLG command,

it is a good one when you get stumped, as it will clarify the availablity

of different behaviors through changing the variable settings,

such as you did with VISRETAIN, per Rob's suggestion .

[RobDraw]

I'm glad you got it sorted out. I hadn't checked in over the weekend but your issue kept popping into my head like that annoying song you can't stop from playing in your head. Not that your issue was annoying, it was more that I wanted an answer.

[Dinochrome]

Man, I thought I was going to be able to answer that. Visretain. If you don't know about it, it's a killer.

 

I like xrefs.

 

Insert one , rename it and reinsert it again.

 

You can do some interesting layer manipulation that way.

 

HVAC view Vs Lighting Layout, Vs Power Layouts etc.

[moatt]

Yeah, the funny thing was I'd tried VISRETAIN and it didn't do what I wanted. But that's because I'd been freezing the layers in the viewport. What I was really looking for was a way to have viewport layer visibility be maintained through refediting, but now that I know what my problem was it's an easy fix (because what I really want doesn't exist).

 

Dinochrome, what do you mean? That's a fascinating concept, but I don't quite grasp the details of what you're doing. Could you elaborate?