Standards for Windows and Walls

[Jaz]

I know that they resize, but W4 is 1810, and W8 is 1710. What size windows should I use for that?

[ReMark]

Perhaps those are non-standard sizes? I don't know since I don't work in metric units. You have two choices. 1) Modify the existing dynamic block to include the other sizes. 2) Create your own block for each of the two missing sizes.

[Jaz]

I'm just going to change the lengths of the gaps for the windows and the walls to suit those standard windows in the block. I really think it is just that 1710 that is odd. Everything else... 1810, 910, 610.. they all work with those windows with an extra 10mm so I'm guessing I'll just centre it. Hence my first question if there was a standard distance between the window and wall etc. So frustrating. Thanks so much for your help though.

[ReMark]

Do you have access to either of the following:

 

Neufert's Architectural Data

 

or

 

McKay's Building Construction

 

I believe both are/were widely used in the U.K. and even around the world.

[Jaz]

No, but I should definitely buy them! This drawing is for a year 10 class. It's difficult because we have limited time and don't get to go into much detail with Architectural etc. Most of the time is spent teaching them Iso's, cabs and ortho's. Some have never even heard of AutoCAD :/ Textbooks that I have access to are 10000 years old. The new syllabus for OP graphics (yr 11 & 12) is based on design. Technically they don't even have to use a computer program.

[ReMark]

Are you a teacher?

[Jaz]

Yes. Trying to anyway. I only just completed my 1st year. I agree with your quote btw.

[ReMark]

What kind of class is this?

 

Where are you located?

 

I just realized the openings that are 1710 and 1810 in width are for a side-by-side window so I imagine there would be a gap between the two windows that would be covered with trim on the outside. I've temporarily forgotten what that feature is called. When it comes to me I'll add it to this post.

 

OK...I think the word I was searching for is "mullion".

[Jaz]

In Australia. It's just a yr10 graphics class. They do it for 3 weeks in year 8 if they are lucky and they don't have to do it in year 9 to be able to do it in yr 10.

[ReMark]

Graphics? I'm kind of surprised you would be covering architectural drawings. What other types of projects do the students work on?

 

BTW....the larger size opening that appeared to be non-standard would accommodate two windows separated by a mullion so there would be no gap between the side of the window and the wall on either side.

[Dana W]

I think you all may have hit on something when you talked about the walls being masonry.

 

The "Rough Opening" as we call it on this side of the pond is the space required for fit and leveling, between the window and wall.

 

The overall rough opening in a masonry wall will have to be at least 3" (75 - 80 mm) larger than the rough opening in a wood framed wall to accommodate a permanent timber frame all around the opening. It is much easier to attach a window to wood than masonry. It is much easier to attach a raw piece of lumber to a masonry wall, than it is a flimsy window jamb, while trying to keep it level and plumb.

 

In a typical wood framed wall, there is no need for this extra bit of wood surrounding the window so the "Rough opening" is a good deal smaller. In a wood wall, 20 mm to each side would be considered almost too much space. Ideally 1/2" or 13 - 15 mm would be sufficient on each side.

[Jaz]

Thanks guys this is very helpful. This will be great to create discussion with my class and learn the differences. In Junior they simply copy drawings, mostly isometrics, cabinet obliques, and orthographic projections. When they get to Senior they take on more responsibility as to what they are drawing. This can be mechanical objects to garden furniture etc. and they begin making their own designs.

[Dana W]

A teacher then, that's a very good thing to be.

 

Better you than me mate. I don't have the patience for it.

 

It may be that your students might like to have a little bit of information that will help them understand a bit more about how windows and doors are actually dealt with. It may be more likely that the following will put them to sleep.

 

First thing, the rough opening space we speak of is there so the installer has room to get the windows and doors level and plumb without ripping at the walls with heavy machinery.

 

In the real world, one does not have to worry about drawing the rough openings for windows and doors on the floor plans or elevation views. It is enough to show them properly located with simple symbolic representations such as the built in door and window blocks that come with the program. Of course, due diligence on the part of the drafter must be done in order to insure that the windows or doors will actually fit where the architect says they do. Sometimes, um ah nyeah maybe. However, they can be drawn at their 'nominal' size on the floor plan and the lines of the walls brought up tight against them.

 

It has become expedient to locate, especially exterior windows and doors by only "on center" dimensions and a nominal size label. This is because of the differing rough opening requirements of the different types and manufacturers.

 

Interior doors are usually not dimensioned at all because 99% of them are a common standard distance off of a corner of the room. An interior door further out of a corner than standard will at least require locating the center line by a dimension.

 

To cover the exact fit requirements, there will be door and window schedules included in the construction plans listing each by type. The schedule will include columns for quantity of type, which room they go in, What the paint finish will be, exact width, and height, and the manufacturers or general contractors recommended rough opening requirements. There may even be particular fasteners listed for installation and the type of hinges, locks and other hardware.

 

Then we rely on the masons and framers to make them fit.

[Jaz]

Haha, I'm only in my 2nd year and starting to realise I'm not very patient! Thanks for that info, you've worded it really well. The good thing is that we mostly try teach them the basics of the program and show them bits of different careers. My biggest issue is that I don't want to teach them 'wrong' ways or make them narrow minded. Who knows what they will do after school, and if they become a draftsperson the company will show them how they want things done. This is very helpful, and I'm wondering why I never found this site earlier. I have spent time googling things/standards, hours reading and not getting much out of it, or a straight answer! Definitely going to invest in more textbooks though. They are making one for the new syllabus so I pray to god it's a lot easier to interpret than the drawing I have been looking at :/