mikekmx Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Those of us doing 3D can reduce the number of shop drawings, dramatically. ......yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzframpton Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Like i did mention 3d for presentation rules but when it comes to shop drawings 3d was never born and not about to happen before the turn of the century. Shop personnel do not have overhaul picture anyway never mind 3d in their case. We are still a long way in order to get minds to interpret 3d and apply to the workforce doing the labouring task of producing parts.Where have you been the last decade? What about 3D Printing, Rapid Prototyping, Digital Modeling and Fab, and many other 3D-based fab industries? Even in my industry you can use 3D software and then send directly to a Vulcan plasma where it get's right to cutting, with 3D generated spool pieces (HVAC and mechanical piping). Flat stock to be cut and welded in the shop will always be cut and welded in 2d period. 3d will only be the final results sitting on the floor but who cares unit will be shipped to the client and workers will be working on the next job so the last one will be long forgotten the next day after shipping.There are more programs out there than "just" AutoCAD. Have you looked into a program like Autodesk Inventor, where it generates flat patterns, complete with bend tolerances? 2D can be generated from the 3D components. The 21st century is already here... mind joining us? I'm still waiting on ReMark to, but you're also welcome!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski_Me Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I do fire alarm design based off of floor plans that I get from architects. Like the earth these drawings are flat, to even consider that there things that have a so called z-axis is well just blasphemous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nestly Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The 21st century is already here... mind joining us? I'm still waiting on ReMark to, but you're also welcome!! Thriving in the 21st century does not require using Revit/BIM... Tried AMEP and looked at Revit, but I won't be pushed through the Revit cookie-cutter. I need more freedom to be creative than the "BIM" solutions provide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobDraw Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I do fire alarm design based off of floor plans that I get from architects. Like the earth these drawings are flat, to even consider that there things that have a so called z-axis is well just blasphemous. ... and all your smoke and heat detectors and alarm devices get mounted on the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobDraw Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Thriving in the 21st century does not require using Revit/BIM... Tried AMEP and looked at Revit, but I won't be pushed through the Revit cookie-cutter. I need more freedom to be creative than the "BIM" solutions provide. Resistance is futile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzframpton Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Thriving in the 21st century does not require using Revit/BIM... Tried AMEP and looked at Revit, but I won't be pushed through the Revit cookie-cutter. I need more freedom to be creative than the "BIM" solutions provide.I was actually referring to shop fab with applications such as Inventor and/or Solidworks. I figured this was implied with the type of links I put in the post you quoted me from since ROBP was referring to flat stock in a fab shop. I had a small mention of HVAC and mechanical piping but it still applies. And you can have all the freedom you want with AMEP and/or Revit. You just haven't found it yet. Especially AMEP since it's AutoCAD at the core. "BIM" is a process and has nothing to do with "3D" and tons of people think BIM = 3D, and 3D = BIM and that's probably the biggest misconception of the highly exploited acronym. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nestly Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Resistance is futile. Not futile ... just annoying to those who seek to oppress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobDraw Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 just annoying to those who seek to oppress That could be said about those on both sides of the coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzframpton Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 That could be said about those on both sides of the coin.Could not agree more!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobDraw Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I'm on both sides and I annoy myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nestly Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 And you can have all the freedom you want with AMEP and/or Revit. You just haven't found it yet. Especially AMEP since it's AutoCAD at the core. Nope.... for starters, you can't auto-route pipe flanges that look like pipe flanges (ie raised face AND bolt holes) with AMEP. Yeah, I have a silly notion that components in the model should look like their real-world counterpart... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzframpton Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Nope.... for starters, you can't auto-route pipe flanges that look like pipe flanges (ie raised face AND bolt holes) with AMEP. Yeah, I have a silly notion that components in the model should look like their real-world counterpart...There's a raised face flange in the stock AMEP catalog that's ANSI standard. Have you not found it? Open it up in the parametric part editor and add some booleans for the bolt holes. You can take it as far as you want but don't tell me it "can't" be done. And there's nothing silly about you wanting every detail, I agree completely but Autodesk has given you 90% of the part, so just polish it off to your standard and you're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Taylor Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Has there been any discussion about retrofit and renovation project in the AEC industry, from what I understand most architects find it more cost effective to do a lot of retrofit jobs in AutoCAD as the time it would take to model and set up a Revit project does not outweigh the speed at which they can create the same plans in AutoCAD. This pretty much dictates how us, the engineering consultants go about doing the project on our end. Why would we waste our time creating a model in Revit to do many of the things we have AutoCAD plugins to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobDraw Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I'm not going to speak as to specific limitations of software platforms because that is not what this discussion is about. You get out of it what you are willing to put in to it, especially when it comes to content. One of the most often stated and most meaningless complaints is the lack of content. How could anyone expect any platform to have everything they need and do everything they want OOTB and with little to no experience? Most of us, at one point or another have had to build content, and/or learn how to use a particular platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nestly Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Open it up in the parametric part editor and add some booleans for the bolt holes. You can take it as far as you want but don't tell me it "can't" be done. Have you tried it? Revolve and Boolean don't work for "Fittings" No Boolean = no bolt holes = no auto-routing realistically modeled flanges & fittings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzframpton Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I remember a guy over at TheSwamp.org who got it working a few years back. I haven't tried it, no, because I dropped AutoCAD based applications long ago. *EDIT* And you're really going to fault a stellar tool for.... "bolt holes"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nestly Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Well, I mentioned in my first reply that I need more creative flexibility than AMEP/Revit offers, so yeah, that includes the ability to display bolt holes in flanges. But I've been round-and-round with Autodesk support on other issues and the fact is that the automation in AMEP/Revit simply aren't designed to permit the level of model detail I need in my models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobDraw Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 You want automation to express your creativity? I can't get past how they are basically contradictory. Once again this discussion is about 2D fading into the past, not about the limitations of certain platforms. If you are not happy with what you are using, find something you can be happy with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nestly Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Yes Rob, I want software automation read my mind and paint pictures for me, and sing and dance for me too.... ... but I'd be satisfied if it just allowed me to put holes in pipe flanges (because as far as I know, bolt holes are kinda an important features for attaching bolted flanges) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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