Imperial Project - AutoFlow: scaling issue HELP

[HippoPotamus]

The company I work for has projects in both imperial and metric. Currently I'm working on an imperial project and this projects standards (in the standards manager) matches those of the other imperial projects we have. When I go to add a valve in AutoFlow the valve shows up huge... how do I fix this problem without scaling down each and every single valve that I add?? HELP

 

Thanks!

 

It appears that all of the imperial projects are messed up while the metric project are ok. I believe when autocad was updated that it erased all the previous settings/standards for the projects and that now autocad automatically reads the metric standards and not the imperial standards...

[Dipali]

The Scaling Of The Block Is Effected By The Units Of The Block. For The Old Blocks Open Their File & Set 'insunits' Value 1(inches) Or 4 (milimeter) Depending Upon The Drawing Unit. Than In Your Drawing If It Imperial Set Insuints To '1' & Even If You Bring Metric Block, It Will Come As Correct Scale.

Alternatively You Can Set This Value In Tools>options>user Preferrence>insertion Scale & Specify Appropriate Unit For Source Drawing & Target Drawing & It Should Work.

[dbroada]

As Dipali has commented, AutoCAD is now "intelligent" when inserting blocks and makes assumptions about their units. Following Dipali's advice will get you there most of the time but if you are like us and have all your old blocks saved as "unitless" you can increase your chance of success by openning each block and save it again with the units set correctly for itself. Certainly if you are in a multi units office I would consider it worthwhile. We only do imperial occassionaly so haven't yet converted old blocks but do make sure new ones aren't unitless.

[soleary]

you can increase your chance of success by openning each block and save it again with the units set correctly for itself.

Hi Dave

 

What do you mean by this? I understand the unitless concept, but why save the block again?

[dbroada]

unitless was my prefered method but with the introduction of "intelligence" AutoCAD now assumes ALL blocks to be drawn in imperial unless told otherwise. If you insert a unitless metric block into a metric drawing it comes in at 25,4:1. If you insert a unitless imperial block into an imperial drawing it comes in correct.

 

The variables Dipali mentioned (along with a couple of others) force AutoCAD into accepting different defaults but once set you may still find unitless imperial blocks coming in to an imperial drawing at 1/25,4:1.

 

I am only making future (mechanical) blocks with the correct units and not going back and converting existing ones as we are mostly metric. If we had a mix of imperial and metric I would consider adding the units to all my blocks.

[skipsophrenic]

So let me make sure everythings understood.

 

if we want to insert a block as millimetres we now have to save its

units as millimetres, for imperial save its units as imperial etc . . . .

 

Have i got that right? if so would explain probs i've been havin.

[dbroada]

you don't have to but it does make life easier.

 

with Dip's variable you can tell AutoCAD that all inserted unitless blocks have been drawn in light years and should be scaled accordingly. If you define a blocks units it should be scaled to suit the current drawings units setting.

[soleary]

If you insert a unitless metric block into a metric drawing it comes in at 25,4:1. If you insert a unitless imperial block into an imperial drawing it comes in correct.

I don't agree with this statement. The settings for unitless blocks is controlled by the setting in options (see below) as opposed to the insunits system variable. If you insert a unitless block with the settings as below into a metric drawing, it will insert at the correct scale.

[skipsophrenic]

ok thnks just wanted confirmation - hope this answers OP's problem

[dbroada]

I don't agree with this statement. The settings for unitless blocks is controlled by the setting in options (see below) as opposed to the insunits system variable. If you insert a unitless block with the settings as below into a metric drawing, it will insert at the correct scale.

if you read what WAS here, I wrote it as I was going home for the weekend and it wasn't very well thought through.

 

the screen shot posted shows the insunitsdefsource and insunitsdeftarget variables which do force the inserted blocks into the correct units. The variables Dip posted do similar things too but I can't remember what. When these variables were first introduced (2004?) they weren't on the options button and took some time to find. If you are only drawing in one measurement system setting these in your dwt will serve you well.

 

If however you draw in a plurality of systems it won't be long before you also have a mixture of measurements in your blocks. If you have the units set within your blocks you can pull an imperial block in from one drawing into a metric drawing without having to change the scale yourself.

[soleary]

Hi Dave

 

That's fair enough but I would argue that even if the block is created with units attached, it's still possible for them to be inserted at the 'wrong' scale if your insunits system variable is set incorrectly (depending on the units defined in the block).

 

The insunitsdefsource and insunitsdeftarget variables are specifically for unitless blocks and with the 'source' variable you can apply whatever units you want to a unitless block. insunits is powerful for controlling blocks that have the units set. You probably know this already - I'm writing it to get it straight in my own head.

 

So I was just wondering what the logic was when you saving the block again with predefined units. I'm not saying it's incorrect, I was just trying to reason the logic. (I like learning)

 

With the utmost respect, I don't agree at all with the first paragraph on your post above (the one posted at 12.51pm) as I think it's misleading. How the block is inserted into a drawing is down to the settings that the user themselves have set.

[dbroada]

With the utmost respect, I don't agree at all with the first paragraph on your post above (the one posted at 12.51pm) as I think it's misleading. How the block is inserted into a drawing is down to the settings that the user themselves have set.

providing you have set the units. OOTB AutoCAD doesn't (didn't?) come with them set for metric. This may have changed, 2004 was the last time we did clean installs and have "upgraded" ever since so haven't had to change anything.

 

I only know that since saving blocks with predefined units I can insert metric blocks into imperial drawings without having to rescale afterwards.

[soleary]

providing you have set the units. OOTB AutoCAD doesn't (didn't?) come with them set for metric. This may have changed, 2004 was the last time we did clean installs and have "upgraded" ever since so haven't had to change anything.

 

I only know that since saving blocks with predefined units I can insert metric blocks into imperial drawings without having to rescale afterwards.

I don't see why one would have to set the units? I don't believe there is a proviso? You (one) can do this with a unitless block easily....

[dbroada]

as I implied, this is delving deep into memory but these INS* variables first came to light when ALL our unitless blocks came into our unitless drawings at 25,4:1. If it doesn't do that anymore - then good. It foxed us and our supplier for a few days.

[dbroada]

I've just re-read your reply and realise I may have misunderstood.

 

You are right that you can insert different source blocks that are unitless but by setting the units in the block it becomes transparent to the user.

 

example. I have a number of terminals to put on a rail in my metric drawing. The first are weidmuller so I go to their downloaded metric blocks which will come in at 1:1. I next want a phoenix terminal and get their downloaded imperial block. This now comes in at 0.039:1 so I don't have to do anything.

 

No changing the INS* variables between inserts.

[soleary]

No changing the INS* variables between inserts.

Fair point. It's good to thrash these things out to understand why people do the same thing in different ways.

 

As an aside but related. Do you know what insunitsdeftarget variable actually does? It seems to have no effect on the block once the insunitsdefsource is set. I have read the explanation here on cadtutor but can't seem to work it out....

 

2. The variable INSUNITSDEFTARGET temporarily assigns a drawing unit to the target drawing. This only affects scaling of the block and not the target drawing as a whole. The available settings are the same as for INSUNITS.

 

For me the block is scaled according to the insunitsdefsource variable???

[dbroada]

TBH, I don't use them! I have a button that scales objects by 25,4 either larger or smaller. Behind it is a bit of VBA code as there is a problem with AutoCAD's scaling in the Z direction! I wonder if the INSUNITSDEFTARGET is for when you use blocks from design centre or a palette?

[soleary]

TBH, I don't use them! I have a button that scales objects by 25,4 either larger or smaller. Behind it is a bit of VBA code as there is a problem with AutoCAD's scaling in the Z direction! I wonder if the INSUNITSDEFTARGET is for when you use blocks from design centre or a palette?

Think I'll start a thread. Thanks for your reply.