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View Full Version : Can some one help me with stuctural drafting.Thank the lord is back

16th Mar 2011, 06:26 pm
Hello,
Am doing the structural drafting project (online student)
I placed the w12x152, w12x45 and c9x20. but i dont understand the following:

the channel beams rest on the bottom flange of the girders. there is a 1" gap from the web of the girder to the end of the channel.
• Each channel beam is bolted to the girder with a 1/2″

thick angle. Each leg of the angle is 4″, and the angle is
6″ wide. There are two angles used for each channel
beam, one at either end of the channel. The angle is
bolted to the backside of the channel using two 5/8″ Ø
bolts that are 2 1/2″ long. Each bolt is positioned 1 1/2″

away from the end of the angle as well as 1 1/2″ away
from the nearest side of the angle. Two more bolts with
the same dimensions fasten the other leg of the angle to
the web of the girder. These other two bolts are also
positioned 1 1/2″ away from the end of the angle as well
as 1 1/2″ away from the nearest side of the angle.
Thank you.

SLW210
16th Mar 2011, 07:53 pm
I think they want something like this......

nestly
17th Mar 2011, 12:46 am
What he said, except I think the angle is supposed to be on the "backside" of the channel.

17th Mar 2011, 03:48 am
may be am doing it all wrong. so if the yellow one is the w12x45 and the red one is the c9x20 i don't know what the color blue one is. this is what i got so far. am i in the right direction?

Thank you.26561

nestly
17th Mar 2011, 08:31 am

http://www.screencast.com/t/c2ljZjL0x7

SLW210
17th Mar 2011, 01:01 pm
What he said, except I think the angle is supposed to be on the "backside" of the channel.

Correct, I just threw something out there for him to get a visual, I have placed so many on the inside of the Channel I just did that out of habit.. The blue is the L1/2 x 4 x 4 6"Lg. I left out the bolts and bolt holes as well, I am not doing the project for him. :D

If you plan on doing structural work, you need to get some related books, those are standard connections. http://www.google.com/#q=Structural+steel+books&hl=en&prmd=ivnsb&source=univ&tbs=shop:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=3veBTY2kKMS3tgfl8-nMBA&sqi=2&ved=0CEgQrQQ&biw=1253&bih=729&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=5795f80f89536f59

SLW210
17th Mar 2011, 01:02 pm

http://www.screencast.com/t/c2ljZjL0x7

I cannot access screencast from work, could you post it here?

nestly
17th Mar 2011, 06:13 pm
I cannot access screencast from work, could you post it here?

I don't think I can upload/attach it to the forums since it's around a 3MB .swf video. I can throw it up on rapidshare in a zip file if you like.

nestly
17th Mar 2011, 06:18 pm

http://rapidshare.com/files/453032316/2010-12-29_0038.zip

SLW210
17th Mar 2011, 06:20 pm
I can't do rapidshare from work either. I will check it out from home tonight.

Jack_O'neill
17th Mar 2011, 06:25 pm
Is this one of the Penn Foster things? If it is, there is a thread on here some where from not too long ago on this very thing. All the drawings and everything. I'll see if I can find it.

Jack_O'neill
17th Mar 2011, 07:35 pm

18th Mar 2011, 01:28 am
Yes this is for the pennfoster online school.
Hey nestly i went to rapidshare page and created an account but charges me 5.99€
Can you send me that file?
You are right slw210, i want to do it my self with some help from you guys. when i did the oleson village i only askes 2 questions and was able to do it myself but this one is crazy.
am affraid to ask more questions. Thank you

18th Mar 2011, 03:02 am
Hey gusy i moved the c9x20 to this new location after seing nestly's video. i see the pink ones as w12x152 the orange as w12x45 and the blueones as c9x20 on the video is that right? am i drawing them as long as in the video or is my drawing looking ok? am going crazy guys please be patient with me. thank you.

26573

nestly
18th Mar 2011, 04:26 am
The rapidshare file is the same thing as the screencast video.... please don't pay for anything,

I believe what you're trying to draw is the steel structure of something like a warehouse or a multi-story building.

The W12x152's are the vertical columns and the W12x45's are the horizontal girders that form the main floor/roof structure and they span between the columns. The C9' are also part of horizontal roof structure and span between the W12x45's and are connected to the W12x45's with 4x4x6 angle clips as shown in the video.

Organic
18th Mar 2011, 11:33 am

ReMark
18th Mar 2011, 11:38 am
maybe this will be of some value to you:

26574

Car5858
18th Mar 2011, 04:09 pm
The paragraph that was posted gives the discription of the details.26576
This is the drawing of the OP's discription.

Be very carefull as you read the instructions. I had to do one paragraph at a time.
Remember that the instructions are not layed out in the correct draw order. Some of the instructions will be for other plates, or needed elsewere in the project.

19th Mar 2011, 01:53 am
so in real life the beams girders and channel beams are long pieces of steal that run, lets say from one girder to another? if so why was i picturing them as a small metal thing that supports other long metal things.

ReMark
19th Mar 2011, 11:52 am
"Small metal things that supports other long metal things." Funny. Sounds like my wife describing something under the hood (or bonnet). "You know, the big thingy next to the whatchamacallit."

If the small things are pieces of angle with two or three bolts in them that also go through either the web of the BEAM or the flange of the BEAM those are called "clips". It might be helpful if you looked up some terminology of structural steel.

21st Mar 2011, 04:59 pm
I agree with you remark, i sounded like my wife describing things too.
i have never seen that part of a building before. thank you guys.
I finished the fundation plan. now am going to start the south elevation. i will ask if i have more question. i hope is ok with you guys.
why did the booklet ask me to draw the border and title box in inches (11"x17") but i placed the i beams 18' apart. is the school tricking me or this is what it is in the real drafting world?

ReMark
21st Mar 2011, 05:09 pm
The school could be either 1) expecting you to create a scaled drawing much like one would on the drafting board or 2) expecting you to use a paper space layout for your title block and window and create a viewport to see the objects you created back in model space. It's either/or so read your instructions it should tell you what is expected of you.

nestly
21st Mar 2011, 05:33 pm
is the school tricking me or this is what it is in the real drafting world?

No tricks, the columns really are 18 feet apart in model space, and the paper really is 11"x17" in paperspace. If you plot at a scale of 1/4" = 1'-0" the columns are still 18' feet apart, but your model is scaled down by a factor of 48, so they'll only measure 4 1/2" apart on the paper.

http://screencast.com/t/sSsn8vdO3

22nd Mar 2011, 04:22 pm
Please help. i started reading the south elevation part of the project but still don't get it. is the plan same as the top view, south elevation same as the front view and section same as the right side view?

ReMark
22nd Mar 2011, 04:32 pm
Top view and plan view on one in the same.

Front and side elevations can also be referred to by compass direction. Do you have any idea which way is North? If you do then always keep this in mind: When YOU are facing North, EAST will always be to your right. You were never in the Cub Scouts?

22nd Mar 2011, 04:55 pm
was not cub scout.no I don't know the north. So the south elevation is where you see the undergound?

ReMark
22nd Mar 2011, 05:01 pm
was not cub scout.no I don't know the north. So the south elevation is where you see the undergound?

Without a North arrow it would be difficult to say which elevation you are looking at. There was no indication in your project handout as to which direction North might lie in? Is it left up to the student? What is the name of the drawing you are currently working on?

22nd Mar 2011, 05:19 pm
When you said the north i was thinking about some tipe of view. yes the north arrow indicates the long side of the building(which will be at the top of the sheet) as the north elevation. i angled the north arrow at N12d14'0"e. i went back to the foundation plan part of the project and that's what it says. so if the long side of the building is the side with the five w12x152. is that the view i have to show?

Car5858
22nd Mar 2011, 06:41 pm
Refer to post 17, this is what you should see. The horz. section line with the indicators tells you what direction you are looking. So If you are looking at the building you would see an elevation view of the bottom line on the image in post 17. This is called the South Elevation. By using copy and paste, you can quickly lay out this elevation in the new drawing.

22nd Mar 2011, 08:00 pm
where do i see post 17? man i can't believe i don't see post 17.

Car5858
22nd Mar 2011, 08:04 pm
Look in the top right corner of each post, the number of the post appears there. For instance this is post #31

22nd Mar 2011, 08:18 pm
I see it now. let me prosess what said before.

22nd Mar 2011, 08:27 pm
ok, so from the horizontal cutting line to to the bottom of the drawing (to the d bubble) that will be the south elevation. from that same cutting to bubble A will be the north elevation with out counting the vertical cutting linr. is that right?

22nd Mar 2011, 08:38 pm
since the horizontal cutting line is in the middle. i will be copying a 72' long x 27' high rectangle. man am i even close to what you are traying to tell me car5858?

Car5858
22nd Mar 2011, 11:10 pm
This is what it should look like. Hopefuly this will eleminate the :? situation you seem to be in currently.

Raudel Solis
23rd Mar 2011, 03:39 am
are yall posting the actual completed drawings he is working on?
this eliminates the ability to learn :(

Raudel Solis
23rd Mar 2011, 03:42 am
though what is up with the building structure
i would expect to see a concrete cylinder under the foundation to which the I beams or 6*6 are supported by
example

5'O/s CLAB 5'R Bell? is what the site surveyor would be drawing on the flags
five foot off set center line A-B
the bell is to have a larger surface area for support at the bottom to prevent movement of the piers

il post Example drawing file--as soon as i fix my Acad, ... Acad Mechanical is messing around with it :(26632

Car5858
23rd Mar 2011, 02:28 pm
The screen shots that I have posted were dated 2009, requirements may have changed. Penn Foster had sent me a distorted hand out much like the screen shot as an example. If the student requests assistance from Penn Foster they will send something like the drawing that is in question.

There is a discription of the footing and piers that the columns are on. We have to wait for the student to get to that section.

As far as the learning goes we are not doing the drawing for the students, they still have to do them on there own. When trying to explain certian aspects of the drawing instruction, a picture helps the student to understand what is required.

I also advise the students to visit various construction sites, and look for the details of the building the is under construction. They get a better idea of what they are drawing with this experience.

Raudel, The peirs are wiewal in the 3 screen shots, just not detailed.

ReMark
23rd Mar 2011, 02:34 pm
are yall posting the actual completed drawings he is working on?
this eliminates the ability to learn :(

Given the level of actual discernable detail the images provide I doubt that the student in this case is going to benefit as much as you think. Images are posted instead of drawing files to prevent the student from downloading them and submitting the work as his own. We're pretty careful that way.

23rd Mar 2011, 09:16 pm
Before i created this thread i had no clue what the "skelton" of a building looked like, i was not familliar with structural material. I did not now how to start my drawing.But thanks to all of you guys advice i cen see clearlly now. the images you guys posted helped me start my own drawing.
I really appreciate the help i get from all of you.

Raudel Solis
23rd Mar 2011, 09:58 pm
yeah not detailed in my screenshot, it was just a quick sketch/draft to show my example of how ive seen buildings.
steps
Grading company comes and compacts the foundation earth.
then a surveyor comes to the site and marks down all of the pier locations with flags. ive done this, and its amazing how precise this is.
Then Pier drilling comes and drills 15-35' deep holes with a 3-5' radius and create a nice bell at the bottom whose radius is determined by the 1st radius
and the rest isnt important... towards this thread i think

Jack_O'neill
24th Mar 2011, 04:27 pm
Before i created this thread i had no clue what the "skelton" of a building looked like, i was not familliar with structural material. I did not now how to start my drawing.But thanks to all of you guys advice i cen see clearlly now. the images you guys posted helped me start my own drawing.
I really appreciate the help i get from all of you.

The very best thing you could do is if you have a friend in the construction business, see if you can arrange a visit to a site and watch some steel go up. If that's not possible, you might visit a site on your own, and simply tell the site manager who you are and what you're doing, and ask if it would be ok to watch from across the street with binocs, maybe take some pictures or something. Failing that, there are lots of pictures on the internent. Go to your favorite search engine and start looking. Some of the bigger construction companies will even put webcams up so you can see the buildings go up. This won't show details like the clips and such, but you'll get an idea of which pieces go up first and so on. Most of them have a "time-lapse" button that will show a movie from start to where they are now. They are pretty cool to watch.