Help on generating 3D Sink drawings?

[tenghuii]

Hi, actually i'm still new to drawing 3D objects,
so, hope all the experts here can give me a hand please, :)

i've been trying for months on drawing of a kitchen sink, still encountering difficulties on drawing the bowl part, due to its irregular shape,
been trying to loft it through circles, but not so ideal cause the shape doesn't look smooth enough,
been trying to sweep the surface as well, but failed.

please, urgently need advices...
..mental broke..

any suggestions???

[ReMark]

Loft and sweep? That doesn't sound like plain vanilla AutoCAD. What program/version are you using? Or is this a case of terminology?

[David Bethel]

I build sink bowls using and combination of faces and arcs that can be converted to meshes. It is just easier to automate. -David

http://www.davidbethel.com/cadtutor/3d-bowl.dwg

http://www.davidbethel.com/cadtutor/ar-bowl.jpg[/img]

[Mr T]

Loft and sweep? That doesn't sound like plain vanilla AutoCAD. What program/version are you using? Or is this a case of terminology?

Sounds like Inventor.

I'll move the topic.

Nick

[Mr T]

Post an orthographic or photo and I'll knock one up. Ice climbign tomorrow and MTB on sunday but will check back over the weekend.

However, this free site has pictures.
http://www.mr-cad.com/3D-Sinks-Basins-c-9-1.html

There is also some free models. Most of the files are cheap <$20.


Nick

[Lazer]

quick sink, took less than 10 mins to model
No need to loft/sweep
I just extruded a rectangle then fillet all corners big fillets at the bottom then shell it and add a drain hole and the drain board and hole for a tap. job done. :)
http://www.cadimage.net/postimages/sink3.JPG

[David Bethel]

Deelay,

Nice job! For 1s and 2s, these programs are great. I just don't if you make for repetative actions with various sizes, shapes and locations. -David

[Lazer]

I just don't if you make for repetative actions with various sizes, shapes and locations. -David
:oops: I don't quite understand your question David?

[David Bethel]

Wow, can I butcher the english language on a keyboard or what?

What I meant was that for single models, 3D programs beat vanilla AutoCAD in speed and versatility. I don't think that they can do the repetative jobs as well. -David


PS I've been trying out FireFox to access the forum. I think I will go back to Mozilla 'cause of the spell checker.

[Mr T]

But IV can create assemblies etc update part sizes via parametric data etc.

Do multiple arrays, mirrors of parts and features.

Nick

[David Bethel]

Nick,

I will have to look into it Inventor more throughly. It has sounded like the most interesting ( to me anyway ) of all of these new fandangled apps. -David

[Mr T]

It is amazing, especially sheet metal flat patterns, the live renderings and the step back/reverse engineer parts and assemblies.

Nick

[StykFacE]

It is amazing, especially sheet metal flat patterns, the live renderings and the step back/reverse engineer parts and assemblies.

Nick

flat patterns from a 3D model is great using Inventor, however in real world situations it isn't correct. we cut LOTS of flat patterns at work, and using Inventer to automate the flat patterns is the quickest way to get things screwed up lol.

when you calculate in bending allowances and stresses and so forth using different metals, Inventor gets close but not dead-on accurate. when you're dealing with the hundered thousanths you lose a lot of room for error. we have to maually do the calculating ourselves in AutoCAD, which sux cuz it would be nice to have something as easy as Inventor to do that stuff ;-)

[Mr T]

Fair enough but surely you can add a factor into the bend values etc if you no it's wrong by a factor ?

Nick

[StykFacE]

Fair enough but surely you can add a factor into the bend values etc if you no it's wrong by a factor ?

Nick

maybe so.... i'm good in AutoCAD, not Inventor.... i guess i'm just talking about defaults. in fact, do you know where i could do that... if possible? i guess i never thought of searching that....

[Mr_Adams78]

We work with sheet metal parts exclusively at my current job. We are attempting to inject Inventor into our manufacturing process.

-As far as creating the allowances for the flat patterns to be accurate, you have to get all of the options in the sheet metal styles set up correctly, including bend tables that match your tooling. The biggest difference between the ACAD flats and the Inventor flats, is that generally people do the ACAD flats with nominal measurements making the dimensions in the flat patterns nice whole numbers, Inventor works with actual measurements so the dimensions on the flat patterns are not nice whole numbers. You can chase this between the model and the flat pattern, either the model has odd dimensions with the flats showing whole, or vice versa the model with good whole dimesnions and the flats with the odd sizes.

A major problem we are having right now is the sink problem. In my attempts I have found about 3 different ways to model a S/S sink, but nothing I can generate an accurate flat pattern off of. Inventor has a real problem placing a "fold" over another fold at 90 degrees, i.e. at the bottom filleted corner.

Inventor constantly gives me messages about the unmanufacturablilty of the part I am trying to create, but I have sat with the guy at the break who is taking the ACAD flat pattern cutout, and folding it right up into a perfect sink. :x

In short, how do you create an accurate sheet metal sink flat pattern.
Open to any and all suggestions.. :?

[Lazer]

Im learning the sheet metal feature at collage myself so I only know the basics, can you show a photo of the s/s sink you want to model as there is huge collection of sinks on the market.

[Mr T]

Is there a seam in the sink ? If not I can't see how IV can flat pattern it.

There is an Add-in for a few thousand dollars that is very accurate for sheet metal.

Nick

[Mr_Adams78]

The sink does have a seam, one on each corner, the flat pattern is really pretty basic. The problem deals with the 3/4" fillet/bend on the bottom of the sink intersecting with the 3/4"fillet/bend on each corner of the sink.

I have an ACAD version of the flat pattern for this sink & an Inventor model which shows were I am having trouble, but I'm not sure how to include those images with this post?? I can only post an image if it already exists on the web??

Can I send the images to your e-mail, Mt. T & Deelay, or anybody else??

Thanks,

Adams[/img]

[Lazer]

Follow this tutorial to post your picture.http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=183

[Mr T]

The sink does have a seam, one on each corner, the flat pattern is really pretty basic. The problem deals with the 3/4" fillet/bend on the bottom of the sink intersecting with the 3/4"fillet/bend on each corner of the sink.[/img]

Sounds fixable. :D

Nick

[StykFacE]

We work with sheet metal parts exclusively at my current job. We are attempting to inject Inventor into our manufacturing process.

-As far as creating the allowances for the flat patterns to be accurate, you have to get all of the options in the sheet metal styles set up correctly, including bend tables that match your tooling. The biggest difference between the ACAD flats and the Inventor flats, is that generally people do the ACAD flats with nominal measurements making the dimensions in the flat patterns nice whole numbers, Inventor works with actual measurements so the dimensions on the flat patterns are not nice whole numbers. You can chase this between the model and the flat pattern, either the model has odd dimensions with the flats showing whole, or vice versa the model with good whole dimesnions and the flats with the odd sizes.

A major problem we are having right now is the sink problem. In my attempts I have found about 3 different ways to model a S/S sink, but nothing I can generate an accurate flat pattern off of. Inventor has a real problem placing a "fold" over another fold at 90 degrees, i.e. at the bottom filleted corner.

Inventor constantly gives me messages about the unmanufacturablilty of the part I am trying to create, but I have sat with the guy at the break who is taking the ACAD flat pattern cutout, and folding it right up into a perfect sink. :x

In short, how do you create an accurate sheet metal sink flat pattern.
Open to any and all suggestions.. :?

i have a chart that i've actually tested myself, through all the Stainless Steel/Aluminum/etc that i've actually went in the shop and bent myself and measured. it's in the .100 thousanths range, so it's gotta be right on. plus our presses and **** are old school, but they work REALLY well, thing is, is that im in the same boat you are. i have to manually type in all my allowances and deduct/add where needed for a flat pattern, because Inventor will not get it right on. and it sux when i gotta get an earful from the guy out in my shop when something's even a 1/16th off haha.

[Mr_Adams78]

I followed your link Deelay, and followed the directions. I received a message that there wasn't enough available space for me to upload the picture. :(

Is this something I did wrong? Or is the space available at the web site filling up right when I am figuring out how to post an image?? :huh:

[Mr T]

Aye it's full. I'll see if I can delete some. I have chcked but can't delete anything. I'll PM Cadtutor. There is a lot of BMP files which are large.

Nick

[CADTutor]

The File Manager guest account is now good for uploading. Try again.

[Mr_Adams78]

http://www.cadimage.net/postimages/20corners.jpeg

So I have hopefully posted a picture which will help explain the problem I am having.
-I can't get Inventor to model a sink with radiused corners as a sheet metal part which will generate a flat pattern.

I am open to all suggestions/solutions.
Thanks to everybody who has already responded and to those who have had the patience to follow me through all of this.

Adams

[Mr_Adams78]

http://www.cadimage.net/postimages/20sink.jpg

[Mr_Adams78]

All-right, All-right, so I can't get this image to post. The first one I did was to big, I thought, so I dumbed the file down and tried it again. I can't seem to get it right and I don't know what the problem is. I uploaded the image to the file manager, and can view the images there. I use the bbcode notation and get the box with an X in it, but no image. :?

:?:

Adams

[Lazer]

You have to use the url and not the Img just change it to [url] past the web address here [url]
that should do it

[StykFacE]

what the hell is a ulr. :lol:

[Lazer]

URL i mean lol got me there just checking who is awake tonight, as im not, its 1.30am in england and you have just made a good point, im asleep, im off to bed. :lol:

p.s for those who dont get the joke. I types ulr instead of url on the post above StykFacE lastpost, I have edited now so its right. :oops:

[Mr_Adams78]

http://www.cadimage.net/postimages/radiused%20sink.jpg

OK so I think I have the real deal here. This is a pretty low quality rendering, but you can see where the corners come together, this is a 3/4"radius on the side and bottom. I can get Inventor to show these corners in the model correctly, but I can't get a model which will generate a good flat pattern.

[Lazer]

do u have 2 parts there is the bottom plate seperate to the sides??
meaning are you sitting the side of the sink ontop of the plate with the hole??


I am asking because what I see cannot be flattened in inventor

To make sink unsing sheetmetal you would model the same as you flattern an open top box, in flat it would be a cross shape then fold up in 4 places and weld the 4 edges this is how to do it in inventor the easy way.

Remember in sheetmetal feature you have to build everything in at feature, also everything to be flatterned must be as 1 part, you cannot open an assembly put 2 parts together then open it in sheet metal and flattern it.

Am I on the right lines to what you are looking for.

[Lazer]

http://www.cadimage.net/postimages/s.sink.jpg

[Mr_Adams78]

do u have 2 parts there is the bottom plate seperate to the sides??
meaning are you sitting the side of the sink ontop of the plate with the hole??

If we make the sink as two seperate parts then there is too much welding involved.

I'm not sure about making the sink exactly like a box. I have never seen a sink without some kind of radius at the bottom and the corners.

We can draw the flat in ACAD, cut it with the lazer, and break it to make a perfect filleted sink. It's too bad we can't make this product with Inventor, this really gives the program a black eye in my company.

Thanks so much for your help.

Adam