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Create ACADE drawings: Model space or Layout?


ReMark
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For those of you using AutoCAD Electrical I have a question. Since a schematic would not be to any particular scale where do you create your electrical drawings?

 

Do you still create them over in model space and forget about layouts altogether? Or do you see no need to put anything in model space and instead use a layout exclusively. Or, do you use both (model space for the schematic and a layout for title block, border, and notes?

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That's what I first contemplated doing but since there is no scale I thought why not use a layout?

 

wouldn't that just feel... weird? :?

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as I have said many times before, we ONLY use model space so there is no conflict here :) We have yet to be given a good enough reason to change so we haven't.

 

I would suggest you check that signal references work correctly across layouts and if they do, use whatever suits you best.

 

I am beginning to get on top of my installation but the documentation is so..... horrid. On my course I was told how to include the layer name into wire numbers. Do you think I could find where I had written that down? Of course not. And could I find it in the help? NO! Eventually, after a few hot links I got to a page that suggested I search for PARAMETERS (no hot link, just an instruction) and there it was - %G gives me what I want!!!

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I'll have to check the tutorial drawings AutoDesk includes with the program and see what they did. I'm pretty sure everything is in model space.

 

Confirmed. The demo drawings were all done in model space. I find that strange. Here we have AutoDesk pushing layouts and annotative scaling and they use neither in the sample drawings that accompany the tutorials. So I guess what AutoDesk is saying is..."Don't do as I say. Do as I do."?

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Dave:

 

How did you learn ACADE? Did you attend a seminar, take a class, taught by a colleague, use video, online and/or included tutorials, or straight out of the User's Guide or an after-market book?

 

I'm still working my way through the online tutorials (via my subscription) and have a book on order from CADCIM geared towards teaching electrical engineering students how to use ACADE.

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Myself and a collegue (who has since left) were sent on a 4 day course back in January. We basically had an "instructor" talking us through the supplied AOTC exercises. It was very difficult to get them (we had two) to go beyond what the book said. I was saying "we won't be using it for a few months, show us what it can do" but no, we plodded on "forgetting" to put a PLC in until the drawing was almost complete etc.

 

Now I'm trying to massage it into our way of working. Some things I can now do, some things I am going to suggest we change our standards and some things.....

 

One problem I have is that we are now part of the Rockwell automation group so all our support comes out of the USA. Our training was the last thing we got from our AutoDesk reseller. I want to go back to them to ask questions but don't know how forthcoming they will be. I'm currently saving up all my questions!

 

I'm finding a lot of my problems are easy ONCE you have sorted out how to do it. Until then you just have to grope around in the dark. I am SURE we were told we can have from/to markers on the end of each wire. Do you think I can find out how? hopefully by next week I'll be able to tell everybody how.

 

And at the end of this (all in spare time, no budget for doing it properly) I have to train the rest of the office! HA!

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I would like to get some instructor led training if I can but first I'll have to convince the boss and then he has to go before the budget committee. Business has picked up enough we went and had some landscaping done but I couldn't get $300 to buy a video tutorial DVD with 11 hours of training material on it. Go figure. I actually purchased the book out of my own pocket.

 

Re: to/from markers (as you call them). Are you referring to Source and Destination signal arrows by any chance? The Source is the Parent link while the Destination is the Child link.

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Re: to/from markers (as you call them). Are you referring to Source and Destination signal arrows by any chance? The Source is the Parent link while the Destination is the Child link.
no, that bit I can do.

 

We don't have wire numbers but we mark both ends of the wire with the terminal number. We do this on our drawings and export the text to be printed on a heat shrink marker. We have been told (several times) that ACADE can't do exactly what we want (just the terminal number the wire is hanging on) but it can have the terminal number of both ends of the wire. This is what I am trying to do - without success. If youtrip over it at some time, let me know please. :)

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a demo...

 

this is what we have (top)

and this is as far as I have got (lower)

you can see I have un-hidden a couple of attributes that I am hoping to get involved in the future but at the moment they only contain what is showing on the wire.

 

I have found a report that (almost) gives what we want but I wanted it on the drawing.. :(

Elec1.JPG

elec2.JPG

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Terminal numbers - both ends.

 

I'm a tutorial away from one entitled Terminals, Multiple Level Terminals and Jumpers. I wonder if it might be covered there.

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I've always done my schematics in model space and then titleblocks in layout. Can tweek the viewing scale when needed :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here is a sample of the books we write. We also do web based training. Its a lot better than the Autodesk ones and was actually written and proofed by Electrical Engineers.

 

I'll keep in my dropbox for no less than 5 days, after that I can't promise it will be there: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4015397/Ascent%20Electrical%20Chapter%20Preview.pdf

 

Also here is a great link to the guy who is the father of AutoCAD Electrical, great guy too by the way, I have met him a couple times and used to have him on speed dial when he used to work for Autodesk (not self employed).

 

http://nateholt.wordpress.com/

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Back on topic with Layouts and Models Space... I see this done 50/50 in industry with this software. If someone is actually building the cabinet and not just referencing it they traditionally do the documentation in Layouts so the scale is right. So many just throw components into the cab and they are no where near the right sizing, they just do it for the reference and tagging. So this really comes down to a company matter. If you have no reason to show scale, keep it all in Model, if you need to show scale, do it in a Layout with correct Viewports.

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The majority of my work will be schematics. The electrical engineer, who will be learning ACADE as well, will be doing panel and cabinet layouts. The engineer is giving me a hard time about drawing sizes. He wants something small (11x17) the electricians can take in the field. I want something larger so I can get 2 or 3 ladders per sheet instead of 1. I've suggested using layouts. Everything in model space but the titleblock and border. Five layouts: one at 24x36; four at 11x17 representing the upper left quadrant, lower left quadrant, upper right quadrant and lower right quadrant. Taking the entire sheet in the field would be a matter of printing the four quadrant layouts. What do people think of that idea?

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  • 2 weeks later...

An update:

 

I've received that book by CADCIM Technologies I mentioned in a previous post. It is entitled AutoCAD Electrical 2010 for Electrical Control Designers. I've decided to tackle the two Project drawings in Chapter 14. One is of a single phase wiring diagram and the other is a panel layout drawing.

 

Thank you Mark Flayler for the two links you provided earlier. I have looked at them both. Nate Holt's blog contains a wealth of information.

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  • 1 month later...
no, that bit I can do.

 

We don't have wire numbers but we mark both ends of the wire with the terminal number. We do this on our drawings and export the text to be printed on a heat shrink marker. We have been told (several times) that ACADE can't do exactly what we want (just the terminal number the wire is hanging on) but it can have the terminal number of both ends of the wire. This is what I am trying to do - without success. If youtrip over it at some time, let me know please. :)

 

 

Is this what you were looking for?

Wire Number Parameters.pdf

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Is this what you were looking for?
thanks, that is a bit more than I have seen before. I'm not sure I've seen the 2nd sheet before. I don't think they will give us what we want but I'll give it a try.
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  • 3 months later...

When I started using ACE a few years ago, I did everything in model space... including the title blocks. Now when doing a drawing, I have two templates-one for schmatic where the title block is in model space and the layout tab has one VP that covers all. And the second template is for panel/cabinet layout where there is no title block in model space, but on the layout tab. At which time we do individual VP when it has to be scaled and dimension. That makes it easy to print the project all at once printing all the layout 1 tabs. Something that was suggested to me recently was making the model space area for schematics a D size, that way when it prints on a 11X17 it looks cleaner.

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