Surface RT

[tzframpton]

You could do all that and more with a Linux distro, absolutely FREE.

Uh.... no I CAN'T. You think I didn't look into that option?

 

[f700es]

Yeah but I have a domain with WHS, so guys like me are out of luck. Then again, it's a bit over the top for most people so I totally understand.

 

Also, I think it would be neat if Microsoft would release an OS that is only WMC. That's it. You could still install things like XBMC and Hulu, etc... but do it on an outside client. Sell this OS for $20 or $30 or something... would be awesome I think! All three of my HTPC's do is strictly TV, music, movies, pictures, Netflix and Hulu.

 

 

Like a Windows "light". I think you are OK with WHS using home editions.

[f700es]

Not a linux fan huh? I keep trying to find a reason to have a copy installed but so far I haven't. There are several distros I like based on Ubuntu like CrunchBang and Elementry but with no CAD nor SketchUp it's a no go for me

[tzframpton]

Not a linux fan huh?

I'm totally a fan of linux. But it simply doesn't work for my personal uses with home theater PC's, not to mention with my personal business uses.

[f700es]

Yeah no Revit on Linux. It kills me to see the hoops people on the SketchUp forum go through to get SU to work thru WINE.

LOL, it gets a gold rating with these results:

 

"With Ubuntu 12.10 SketchUp renders complex images much slower than before. Manipulating the view-angle or moving objects results in part of the image being not immediately refreshed, but details to be omitted until resources become available again. This is frightening."

 

"Exporting pictures to any format different from *.skp fails, the resulting images are empty or completely black. Printing does not work."

 

 

I see AutoCAD 2008 is up to a Silver rating.

[tzframpton]

Exactly. "FREE" comes with a "PRICE" no matter how much you wave that $0.00 sign around.

[f700es]

but but, OMG you as not using teh M$!!! Sticking it to da man and all!

[SLW210]

I'm totally a fan of linux. But it simply doesn't work for my personal uses with home theater PC's, not to mention with my personal business uses.

 

Look at Mythbuntu, XBMC and GeexBox for the home theaters.

 

Draftsight runs on Linux, tons of CAD programs for Linux, just no BIM (previous thread on CADTutor discussing this). You may get SketchUp running under WINE.

 

Though you could run CROSSOVER for Windows programs.

 

I don't use Windows at home at all.

[SLW210]

Uh.... no I CAN'T. You think I didn't look into that option?

 

 

Sorry, your probably right, Forget it.

[f700es]

Yeah those Linux CAD options are all well and good but as I pointed out before they just don't seem to have the fluidity that I feel with AutoCAD. I did see that a new Draftsight came out this week. Might try it again.

 

Anyway back to original discussion, I think we'll see more deep discounts in RT based units as we are starting to see $350 full Win8 tablets emerge.

[tzframpton]

Look at Mythbuntu, XBMC and GeexBox for the home theaters.

What about regular EPG and DVR functionality? Only WMC has perfected this, and is how my wife and I "watch and record TV". Linux cannot give you this, because nothing does DVR/PVR/EPG like WMC - nothing. I've been there, done that, and the only one who comes close is XBMC and even then it's a hassle beyond anyone could ever imagine. Microsoft just "works". Install your ATSC/ClearQAM tuner, open WMC and bam, you're watching TV with a electronic programming guide, record shows and series, Live DVR stream, etc.

 

And I do run XBMC because it just kicks ass for codec support and Movie/TV DB services and organizations from our server.

 

Draftsight runs on Linux, tons of CAD programs for Linux, just no BIM (previous thread on CADTutor discussing this). You may get SketchUp running under WINE.

I don't use AutoCAD really anymore... Revit and 3ds Max Design so that's not a viable option for me, especially since I run a side business so I need as less hassle as possible to ensure maximum efficiency for my clients who depend on me.

 

Though you could run CROSSOVER for Windows programs. I don't use Windows at home at all.

I'm not really interested in having to spend more time and effort that takes away from my family time to learn, support and run clients and a server that are community supported, with workarounds to get Windows applications to work in a non-native Windows environment.

 

These are my reasons, I am NOT attacking you SLW so please do not relock the thread. I'm just simply stating why Linux is not an option, although I have definitely considered it being the techy guy I am.

[f700es]

I like Linux too, I just don't have a use or need for it other than playing with. Much like I like OSX as well. I just have a problem playing the extra money to "legally" use it. It's good to have options, it makes it better for us consumers

[SEANT]

Let’s return, briefly, to the Surface RT/Windows RT (S/WRT) issue and the notion of edgy business models. Disclaimer: High speculation below.

 

Clearly Apple has a good handle on predicting and formulating trends - perhaps I should say “had” now that the visionary Steve Jobs has passed. Regardless, the situation is reminiscent of the early 90’s, only now the Google/Android ranks are working hard to outperform their overpriced competitor.

 

Microsoft, a distant third, probably not even a factor to consider, still garners a tremendous amount of attention with their first ARM based offering. Not necessarily good press as Owners of Current Devices (OCD) claims that S/WRT has completely missed the mark.

 

I find that interesting, given my first two weeks with the devise. Clearly the package has a lot to offer. Have the OCDs actually given S/WRT a proper test drive? I doubt they actually own one – Microsoft would have pretty good sales numbers if they did. It is more likely they appraised the S/WRT with an agenda.

 

Now, the OCD press dances gleefully at news of a $900 million dollar write-down. That doesn’t seem to make sense either, except that many of the OCDs hate Microsoft. After all, Microsoft was the author of the original 1990’s “beatdown”. Many of the OCDs were deathly afraid that history would repeat itself. All the early negative press helped stave off that possibility.

 

 

Speculation continues in next post.

Edited July 26, 2013 by SEANT
Punctuation

[SEANT]

Microsoft doesn’t get marketing. They get Business and Tech, they get “Geeks”. They don’t get the contemporary “lay man”/consumer. They have a real problem with marketing. Else, they would have made more with the original Surface.

Even with that early technical success, they marketed themselves into a distant third position in today’s tablet market.

 

Microsoft is not stupid, though, they knew they let themselves get way behind. I think they even knew they were behind on some of the modern/mutated business models. Finally, I think they knew that playing catch-up would always keep them behind. They needed to leapfrog with an even more aggressive business model. Subsidized hardware.

 

Corporation on US soil cannot sell hardware below cost without running afoul of Anti-Trust legislation. Certainly not Microsoft. The legislation is designed to help prevent larger Corps from squashing smaller companies out of existence. The thing is, though, that the Mobile Computing ecosystem makes it very hard to play catch-up, even for wealthy corporations, given the need for multi-party participation (hardware, App developers, accessories manufactures). The large OCD customer base is almost an unfair advantage.

 

Microsoft needed a way to get millions of devises to a whole new user base. Microsoft couldn’t just give devises to school age kids without serious legal ramifications. That is unless the millions of subsidized units were from an apparent failed business venture.

 

Parents of 6-12 grade students are probably the meat of the OCDs. The students are the up and coming market. In a few years the students will have their own discretionary funds. Many, now, will have had experience with the S/WRT, plus, teenagers enjoy being different than previous generations (afterall, their parents are dimwitted enough to be intimidated by an OS File System).

 

Microsoft may very well have been targeting a 2018 – 2020 dominance from the very beginning. Over producing Surface RTs in 2013 wasn’t ill-conceived, it was fore sighted. At least the OCDs were smart enough to be very afraid.

[tzframpton]

Microsoft doesn’t get marketing. They get Business and Tech, they get “Geeks”. They don’t get the contemporary “lay man”/consumer. They have a real problem with marketing. Else, they would have made more with the original Surface.

I agree completely, but hey, that's Microsoft's realm. I mean, take a quick thought on all the infrastructure of businesses world-wide. Most are running Windows Server, and this core application hasn't changed much in what, 20 years? To me, that's pretty impressive.

 

Microsoft needed a way to get millions of devises to a whole new user base. Microsoft couldn’t just give devises to school age kids without serious legal ramifications. That is unless the millions of subsidized units were from an apparent failed business venture.

Microsoft did this with the original Xbox. They subsidized the unit very aggressively just to penetrate the market. I still remember the mixed feelings about a Microsoft gaming console. Just was weird... but it worked! So it seems it depends on the market just as much as the device. A giant like Microsoft can easily float the investment on penetrating a market, and is probably what they're doing with the Surface. But man, they did great with the Xbox but the Tablet market is different so we'll see how this is going to work out for them.

[f700es]

I think MS should just start giving them (Surface RTs) to school. They already give away the tools to write the apps for these devices in Project DreamSpark. Why not just give the devices away to schools? If not free then at few large discounts. Lead by example! Take a device like the new ASUS Memo pad, they are like $99, install Surface RT on it and let students buy them for $50. It would be a WINDFALL! There are only 2 companies that have the capital to do this, MS and Apple. We know for sure that Apple won't do this. The do very little in the way of education or charity work. MS could lead they way but I think Ballmer is not the man to lead MS into the 21st century

[rkent]

StykFacE, (aka Mr. Vinyard) what do you have in your HTPC's? I have an ASUS box that chokes trying to d/l from netflix and I would like to build something that will actually work. Any OOTB solutions or a DIY solution will work.

 

Thanks,

 

rkent

[tzframpton]

StykFacE, (aka Mr. Vinyard)

Lol!! I guess the Vinyard stigma is still with my name for some.

 

what do you have in your HTPC's? I have an ASUS box that chokes trying to d/l from netflix and I would like to build something that will actually work. Any OOTB solutions or a DIY solution will work.

 

Thanks,

 

rkent

Glad you asked, rkent. I'm proud of my current media setup and so is my wife, which if you knew my wife, that says a lot. I've been tinkering with HTPC's since the 'ol P4 days, back in 2006 and through the years, I have almost perfected the best setup(s) for an average Joe who doesn't wanna spend a lot of time tinkering. We're talking plug & play, turn it on, it works and continues to work.

 

People can go back and forth on hardware, but my "main" HTPC is cheap but stout. Best bang for buck is the AMD Bundles from Microcenter. Here's a list of my main setup:

 

• Proc & Mobo (You choose best option for you)
  
• 4GB RAM
  
• +/- $60 gaming card, fanless
  
• Get a quiet PSU
  
• HTPC case, Silverstone is what I have or if you wanna fork out the cash, get a Liam Li
  
• WMC Remote - the one I linked is awesome.
  
• AverMedia Dual Tuner - this is a must have. This brand is by far the best looking and highest quality picture over ClearQAM or ATSC broadcast TV. It's very responsive in WMC too.
  
• Cheap or expensive Antenna. I have this one and it works flawless.
  
• Use the Windows Media Center to setup your TV, and by all means use the EPG (Electronic Programming Guide). Go to the TV Setup and enable color coded guide listings. You'll love the EPG, and try out recording shows. If you have a dual tuner you can watch another channel while one records, or record two shows at once and watch either one running.
  
• Use any SATA drive for your main HDD, but buy a 2TB to act as the show recording drive. High Def takes up a lot of room
  
• Download and Install XBMC
  
• Install the XBMC Add-on
  
• Download and install Hulu Desktop (use Direct Download Link)
  
• Install the Hulu Desktop Add-on
  

 

Other misc. things to do:

• Install AirPlay if you have an iPhone.
  
• Install Gmote if you have Android (must have!).
  
• Install XBMC official remote on iPhone/Android.
  
• Use XBMC for movies, especially if you have a network or local drive that you download to.
  
• Use WMC for music, not XBMC. Just works way better. Using WMP to set up your Auto Playlist.
  
• Remove sleep mode for HTPC so your recordings can still happen. Don't need to be in WMC to record since it's a windows service, but it does need to be on.
  
• Activate Netflix integrated app in WMC.
  

 

Whew!! Lots to type. So that's my main build and it works flawless. Take the same setup, but go with a MiniITX case and the ASRock E350M1 and you have my bedroom HTPC. So, for the money and for the specs, this thing kicks ass. It really is a powerful little machine. Only thing is... Netflix lags on it so can't really use it. This is now 2 years old... maybe even going on three now actually.

 

We've shared and networked our two Recorded TV drive paths with each HTPC so that all our recorded TV stuff is shared no matter where we are. Our "Recorded Series" shows basically turns into a four-recording DVR. Granted, TV is only your local broadcast TV but the High Def is soooo crystal clear because your cable company compresses their HD content. It really is amazingly vivid compared to cable/satellite. Plus it saves you $100/mo at least if you just watch broadcast TV and pair up with Netflix @ $8/mo for the other stuff. It's the way to go!!

 

Okay sorry so long, and SEANT sorry we've hi-jacked this thread on multiple instances but hope this is all helpful.

 

[SEANT]

I think MS should just start giving them (Surface RTs) to school. . . . .

 

I'm starting to think that was the idea from the start. Microsoft created a scenario that allows them to flood a market that is otherwise difficult to crack. With 6 million devises in the hand of tomorrows consumers - I don't see App Developers avoiding the opportunity, regardless of how the devises got there.

 

The highly publicized disclosure of a financial hit means Microsoft cant be accused of "Predatory Pricing" or of violating any other antitrust laws.

 

Think about it. How many Middle/High school students are there in the U.S at any given time? 6 million or so?

[rkent]

I will let the Vinyard thing go, couldn't resist however.

 

Thanks for all that information. So the main box works for Netflix and the bedroom one doesn't, or are they both slow down on netflix? I can get netflix on my appletv (don't laugh) and it works flawlessly, I go to the ASUS unit and it won't work at all. That was a waste of money but it wasn't my money at least, it was a gift from my step-son.

 

I have an old tv in my shop with the digital converter and the shows look really good even on an old tube tv so I can imagine how good the digital signal would look going your route.

 

Thanks again for all the info.

 

Oh, I never got back to you on Revit questions. I realized I was not going to make the time to go through a book so I got my company to pay for a 3 day training class. It was a good class and I learned a lot, now to keep practicing at home so I don't forget what I learned. The more advanced these cad programs get the more I feel like a data base editor and less like a design/draftsman.