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Would you ever not use 1:1 plot scale for a layout?


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Berzerker

Been checking out a few things. I tried to capture a screen shot of the presets (1:1, 1:2, 1:4 scale section) in the the plot/print section but the list keeps disappearing when I try to use snipping tool.

Can't I just as quick hit the plot button and then select 1:2 or 1:4 or 1:1 and hit print and it do the same thing?

Edit:

I just tried an experiment. I set up two different areas/pages 8.5" x 11" I wanted to print but in the same window.

I clicked plot and had it set to limits and 1:1 and hit preview and it has the limits there ready to plot.

Then I can click plot again and select window and draw a quick window around the other page to print and it's set to 1:1 and the both print with just those few clicks.

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I often plot to fit for many reasons. Every plot on the planet is not necessarily a title blocked drawing. Even then, some ask me to plot to 11x17 or most can only plot to 11x17, usually I set drawing

I'd read the link that Cad64 gave you about using viewports.   A quick explanation of using viewports in paperspace: You draw whatever you are drawing in Model space, at full size. (A

From the sound of it. You draw everything at 1:1 as everyone recomends and then for plotting details you make a copy of that area and move it somewhere in model-space and scale it, is that correct? MA

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If that's how you like to print, from model space, that's fine. I'm not trying to persuade you to do anything different. You had mentioned that you didn't understand why anyone would use paper space layouts for printing so I thought I'd try to provide a little explanation to help you understand. For people like me who produce multi-sheet construction plan sets every day, the paper space layouts are an absolute necessity. It would be very difficult, (maybe even impossible), to work efficiently without them.

 

And yes, that image I posted with the 3 viewports is in a paper space layout, not model space. I simply created 3 viewports and set the view and the scale for each viewport accordingly. I know you can set up viewports in model space too, but I have no idea how printing works. I think the last time I printed from model space was probably over 30 years ago. :beard:

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Berzerker

I was just trying to wrap my head around using paperspace. Of all the things that you all here have helped me with have shown to be good practices but this to me.

I can see the placing objects on different layers, The sun and perspective with rendering and everything else. If there's an easier way yes I want to know. But to me it's still the "It's like cutting a hole in a piece of paper" thing to me...I don't get it.

I'm reading on the page you gave me but I can't understand why you would do it that way when to me it's much easier and faster to do it the other way. My way it doesn't matter how your views are set and I don't have to keep setting up different plot views and scales every time I create a drawing.

Let's say I did like you and set up a three view paperspace layout. One at 1/4" scale, one at 1/2" scale and a 1:1 scale. I still have to set each one up? Unless I make a master with those settings and save it as "Name here". I already have a set of masters I made up way back with all kinds of scales. I have 1:1, 1/2" 1/4" 1/8", 1 in. = 12" etc. 

I'll draw my layout "Meaning the whole thing I'm working on" in one view and then part it out to other drawings at the correct scale to fit them on....If that makes sense.

Why is your paperspace a black background and mine white.

Edited by Berzerker
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My paper space background is black because I changed it. I spend the majority of my day working in the layout tabs and I can't stand staring at a white background. If you want to change your background color, type OPTIONS at the command line, then go to "Display" and then "Colors". Then you can change the Sheet/Layout - Uniform Background color to black.

 

I can't really explain the paper space layouts any better than that website, so if what you're reading isn't making sense, nothing I can tell you will be any better. Maybe you should stop thinking about the hole in the piece of paper thing though. The paper space viewport is a window into model space. So, if you want to see what you created in model space, you have to create a viewport in order to see it. Sort of like in your house. If you want to see outside you have to look out the window. I don't know if that clears up anything or not?

Options.jpg

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1 hour ago, Berzerker said:

I'm reading on the page you gave me but I can't understand why you would do it that way when to me it's much easier and faster to do it the other way. My way it doesn't matter how your views are set and I don't have to keep setting up different plot views and scales every time I create a drawing.

Let's say I did like you and set up a three view paperspace layout. One at 1/4" scale, one at 1/2" scale and a 1:1 scale. I still have to set each one up? Unless I make a master with those settings and save it as "Name here". I already have a set of masters I made up way back with all kinds of scales. I have 1:1, 1/2" 1/4" 1/8", 1 in. = 12" etc. 

I'll draw my layout "Meaning the whole thing I'm working on" in one view and then part it out to other drawings at the correct scale to fit them on....If that makes sense.

 

For what you're doing, printing a single object from model space, it's probably fine, but it would never work for me. I do construction plan sets for a Landscape Architect and I typically have multiple paper space layouts within my drawing for different sheets. My construction drawing typically has a title sheet, demolition plan, grading plan and construction plan, each in their own layout. And each of those plans could consist of multiple sheets. So my construction drawing could have 6 or 7 paper space layouts. I recently did a large construction plan set which had about 13 layouts. Printing from model space would never work unless I split my drawing up into 13 separate drawings. Definitely not an easy or efficient way to work.

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steven-g

From the sound of it. You draw everything at 1:1 as everyone recomends and then for plotting details you make a copy of that area and move it somewhere in model-space and scale it, is that correct? MAN what a waste of time. The idea is draw 1:1 in model space. then in paper-space have layouts for different sizes of paper, then use viewports in the layout and only ever use scale in these viewports so on a single sheet of paper you could have a ground plan at 1:100 then a room plan next to that at 1:10 and finally a detail of a door handel at 1:2 all on the same sheet of paper and ALL looking at that same single model you drew. All of that nicely bordered with your title block labelled up correctly, and when it comes to make any changes then you edit your door handel and it shows up in the other two viewports as well.

Then on the next sheet you have the second room and a different window. Now take the whole project and all your door handels use a block, then you make a change to the block, and every single door detail in each and every drawing is also altered.

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Paperspace viewports are different to model space viewports. (I've never found a need for modelspace viewports myself).

 

Taking your post above where you show a paperspace viewport, with a small view of the modelspace.

 

Double click anywhere inside that viewport and it becomes 'Active'.

You can then zoom, pan, etc, to fit whatever part of model space you want to see in that viewport.
(So in that one above you could zoom so the little modelspace view fills the whole paperspace viewport).
Normally you would zoom to a particular scale, but you don't have to.

Once you have it showing what you want the double click anywhere outside the viewport to 'de-activate' it.

 

You can have multiple paperspace viewports in one layout, all with their own view settings, you can resize them, move them about, and so on.
Or you can have multiple layouts each with a different view of the model space.

 

Once you get the hang of using layouts/viewports it's a game changer for using Autocad and increases your productivity.
Of course that also depends on just what you need from your Autocad.

 

As they say a picture paints a thousand words so:

Attached is a simple 2D drawing I did last year for a proposed building extension.
You can see that it has everything at full size in modelspace and then 4 layouts/paperspace showing different views/parts of that modelspace.
Each layout can quickly be plotted seperately.
(OK, the block plan has been drawn to scale for convience, but I could have done it full size and used a second paperspace viewport at a different scale).
Double click inside anyone of those paperspace views and then zoom/pan to see how it works.

extension.dwg

Edited by nukecad
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Berzerker
8 hours ago, steven-g said:

From the sound of it. You draw everything at 1:1 as everyone recomends and then for plotting details you make a copy of that area and move it somewhere in model-space and scale it, is that correct? MAN what a waste of time. The idea is draw 1:1 in model space.

Yes that's correct. But you have to understand I had no one to tell me the ins and outs of AutoCad. When I opened it up and started learning (myself) It started in model space.

So I just started drawing and never looked back. If I needed to know something I just looked on the internet and typed in whatever it said or found the command and used it.

My mindset was on mechanical and drawing anything that had to do with it. Of course I have no mechanical engineering degree or anything but I do have the ability to see things 3D in my mind. 

You all don't know how lucky you are! Cad64 works on landscapes and buildings, nukecad undoubtedly works in architecture and I haven't asked you steven-g what you do yet.

You all sit behind a desk and get to use AutoCad everyday and design things "For REAL life". I've only had "ONE" thing I've designed ever to be actually made and used.

It was a long time ago.

Here's a Gang and infeed I was working on a long time ago. I designed a shifting locking/clamping system. At the time of this all clamping was done on the inside of the Gang and all shifting was done on the outside. The water would eventually start rusting the chromed parts on the inside. So I made it all outside.

Just to keep it honest that wasn't the idea that was used, I designed a saw guide milling machine, it cuts babbitt off the saw guides

 

See I even have a title block.

Gang layout.JPG

@nukecad

I did what you said and loaded your drawing. And yes that helped me to understand it a lot better. I didn't know to double click in it to get it to work and Cad64 telling me how to change color is going to help. I'll fiddle with it. How do you change paper sizes in it.

Edited by Berzerker
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steven-g

I understand that, it's not a dig at you just trying to see how you do things and offer why many people choose to use the ease given by using paper-space layouts

 

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Berzerker

I wouldn't think that steven-g! You guys have been great to me and I will keep saying it "Thank you" for all your help.

I was playing around with nukecad's drawing and the paperspace views. It's pretty cool to be able to click inside and move things around, then you can click outside and zoom in and check things out. I didn't know it would do that. I need to design a title block (?) that I like. I see there is no scale in nukecad's title block. Most drawings I seen when I was a machinist had the scale on them. Meaning if a dimension wasn't there you cold use a measuring scale and tell the length or size. If something is on a piece of paper at 1/2 scale and you measure it you just double whatever measurement you get/see.

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4 hours ago, Berzerker said:

How do you change paper sizes in it.

 

Right click on the Layout tab at the bottom of your screen and then choose "Page Setup" from the pop up menu. Or type PAGESETUP from the command prompt. This will open a dialog where you can choose which layout you want to set up, so choose the one you want to work on and then click the "Modify" button. This will open the Page Setup manager for the Layout. This is where you choose your Printer/Plotter, Plot Style, Paper Size, Etc. When you're done, click OK.

PageSetup.jpg

PageSetup2.jpg

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Berzerker

Yeah but mine doesn't have a title block (I think that's what it's called). The square thing in the right bottom corner where you place the information about the drawing. Like who drew it, date, drawing number etc.

Where do add or change that. Is there a standard I need to be aware of.

no title block.JPG

 

Here's one I made way back in the early 2000's. But I don't think you could consider it standard

Title block 1.JPG

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Dont worry about a title block just draw a rectang the size of your printed sheet if 11x7 etc you need it to be a little smaller as you need a printer margin say 1/4" all round you may have to experiment a little depens on printer.

 

Put the lower left at 0,0 makes life easier, then make a viewport or viewports inside this rectang do say zoom e as 1st go, set scale of viewport, go to print/plot set up all your settings, plot extents, at 1:1, centered can check by preview if happy click apply then print. Once you apply you can click on cancel as well it will remember your print settings.

 

In a new dwg you can steal these plot settings but its easier to save the plot settings in a dwt your blank template dwg.

Edited by BIGAL
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Berzerker
14 hours ago, BIGAL said:

Dont worry about a title block

While I'm learning I might as well learn it all. 

 

14 hours ago, BIGAL said:

then make a viewport or viewports inside this rectang

It sounds simple till you start reading more on it.

Got quite a few questions on this. To start I open a drawing which will be drawing1 as always. Ok I get the border part about drawing a square a little smaller than the print area. But reading on the web it says: "Set the current layer to a layer that's reserved for layout viewports (recommended)." which ones are those? Or do I select a layer color I want and name it like "Layout"

Now I would go to page setup, select new, name it and change all the plot settings and click OK when done. Now save it as a .dwt in a folder or should I do this first. I always name a drawing first I never draw in drawing1, learnt that was bad a long time ago. Then you read on and it says just copy and paste your title block into it through the clipboard with the "Copy with base point" to paste it in the layout template.

 

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steven-g
11 minutes ago, Berzerker said:

it says: "Set the current layer to a layer that's reserved for layout viewports (recommended)."

You just need to create a new layer for yourself, called 'VIEWPORTS'

A lot of people keeps a copy of the titleblock as an independant drawing (backup / archive) and sometimes it is usefull to have different versions large / small etc.

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1 hour ago, Berzerker said:

I always name a drawing first I never draw in drawing1, learnt that was bad a long time ago.

 

Who told you that was bad? You don't have to name a drawing before you start working in it. You can open a blank drawing, (Drawing 1), and start working from there. Then just do a 'Save' at some point and name your drawing then. Autocad will always perform a 'Save As' on the first save and ask you where you want to save the drawing, what you want to name it and what file type you want it to be. It won't overwrite your template file, if that's what you're worried about. The only thing that could be considered bad about that is if you work for a long time without saving and then the power goes out or Autocad crashes, but that's just bad drafting anyway. You should always save every 10 minutes or so.

 

As for title blocks I always create them in model space and then save them as .dwg files so I can Xref them into my drawings, but I typically have multiple drawing files in my construction sets which all have to use the same title block. If you're only working in one drawing file then you could go ahead and put the title block in your template file. Also, if you create your title block inside your template file, there is no need to copy and paste with base point because the title block is already there.

 

And like Steven-g said, you should always put your viewports on their own layer. I set my viewport layer to 'No-Plot' so you don't see it on the print, but you don't have to do that. It's up to you if you want to see it or not.

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Berzerker

I finally see where I was not getting it. All this Time I took "Layout1" and "Layout2" as just plan settings of the drawing. I've seen that a lot before but never payed it that much attention.

You edit "Layout1" when your in "Layout1". I can modify it from here:

While in "Layout1" I can select inside and modify border colors, that dotted outline of the printer area or anything I want!

Page Setup Manager.JPG

Just to see what it would do I placed the Title block I found in it and got this:

TitleBlock1.JPG

Now when I want to print I just click this tab and hit print and it's all set up? I can zoom and move everything  into the field of view and that's what I'll get?

Edited by Berzerker
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On 03/10/2020 at 15:19, Berzerker said:

 nukecad undoubtedly works in architecture

 

Actually not; my discipline was mechanical engineering. (Laterly nuclear plant/equipment hence my username).

 

The architectural stuff I just do to help friends now and again when they need some plans drawing up.

 

The others have already shown you the pagesetup for changing sheet sizes.

I also put viewports on their own layer, which is usually set to invisible so that you can't see them and they don't show on the plot.

 

The title blocks on the drawing I attached are just that - Blocks with attributes set up.
I sometimes find them handier than a full drawing border, it depends what I'm drawing.
You can copy or save then out of that drawing then modify them as wanted for your own use.
Once you have it saved as you like then you can then just insert it as a block into any new drawing.

 

I'm not sure how much use this will be to you but a few years back I posted a set of metric templates with full borders (engineering style) here:
https://www.cadtutor.net/forum/topic/62352-titleblock/?tab=comments#comment-514547

 

As I say they are metric so if you wanted to use them for imperial work then you will have to change the units to imperial, change the layout/sheet sizes with pagesetup, and stretch the borders to suit the imperial sheet sizes. (All the dimension styles etc. are also metric so would need to be changed).
BTW The borders themselves are blocks with attributes.
May be too much work to convert them to imperial, but it's something else for you to have a look at.

 

I guess we have given you quite a bit to look at, layouts, blocks with attributes, templates.
It can all take a bit of learning but once you have it will save you hours of drafting time and you'll wonder why you didn't do it before.

 

Oh, and something else you may have noticed here.
Although the basics are the same everyone uses them in slightly different ways to suit their own preference (or to suit what they are working on).

Edited by nukecad
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steven-g
26 minutes ago, Cad64 said:

Who told you that was bad? You don't have to name a drawing before you start working in it. You can open a blank drawing, (Drawing 1), and start working from there.

The people who say this is bad are those of us who are totally undisciplined and don't save more often than once a day (yes guilty) automatic saves are also a lifesaver but even that has no effect untill a drawing has been 'saved' at least once. Luckily in my experience crashes are very rare and power outages are even more uncommon (but then on a laptop that is less of a problem).

So that is also one of the first things I do when starting a new drawing, save it in the folder it is going to occupy.

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Berzerker

I guess I just never looked at the Layout tabs that close. Didn't like the way they looked and didn't want to mess things up by messing with something I didn't understand. If that makes sense. Cad64 says you can draw in "Drawing1" and not mess it up! I think where I got that from was I did mess up "Drawing1" one time. So if it can be broke in a program give it to me "I'll break it".

I see where saving the TitleBlock as a block itself would help. When I inserted the TitleBlock in it changed the font settings.

Yeah I know everybody does things a little different, so will I. But now when you all talk about it I'll have a better understanding of what your talking about.

Who knows maybe someday I'll be able to pass this on to someone else and help them understand it.

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