How do you use the layer tool?

[screencrack]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I’d be grateful for your thoughts.

I am an experienced AutoCAD user, I use 2009 at work.

I have a horrible, guilty secret to reveal about myself which I know is shared by many others.

You see, I have never gotten into the habit of using layers properly.

I prepare drawing and (when I remember) I open the “match properties” tool and allocate the lines to layers (if I have to, I draw a single line in the layer that I need to send an object to and then use match properties) but I know that my drawings are really undisciplined in terms of layering.

This is a fault which I have noted in a number of colleagues and consultants and I would like to develop the good habits necessary to allocate lines to the correct layer.

Does anyone have a useful tip or two on how to achieve this?

It just seems to be strange to me that anyone can open the layer manager dialogue box, select a layer, make it current, close the box then draw a line. It is just such a protracted procedure that I’m sure that others know something that I’m too embarrassed to ask.

Does anyone have any hints tips or even proper (realistic) procedures that I can adopt?

[CADgirl]

Hasn't anybody at your work commented on the lack of layers? Or are you not the only one?

I think that the more you use it the more you will get used to it.

Personally, I find using layers important because it keeps the drawing neat and organized. It also makes it easier for somebody else to use the drawing after you.

Is there any way you can create a drawing that already has some standard layers loaded in it so that they are there for you to use?- kind of as a reminder. Or load them into each new drawing?

[Cad64]

It sounds like you've developed a very bad habit. Correct use of layers is essential to good drafting. There's nothing worse than getting a drawing from someone who has created their entire drawing on one layer. Or maybe they've used several layers, but they have overidden the properties to change colors and linetypes. This creates a lot of work for the recipient of your file, as they have to now go through and rework your drawing to make it usable.

 

You just need to make a conscious effort to develop a workflow that works for you. Once you do, it will become second nature and you won't even have to think about it. You will just automatically switch to the correct layer when drawing. But during this habit-breaking period, you will have to constantly remind yourself to switch to the correct layer.

 

Maybe you should put a post-it note on your monitor to remind yourself to draw on the correct layer.

 

As Cadgirl mentioned, drawing templates are also very useful, since you can pre-set all your standard layers in the template so they will be there every time you start a new drawing.

 

 

By the way,

I have deleted your other duplicate thread. There is no need to cross post around here. Everyone will see your question, regardless of where you post it, and will respond if they have anything to add. :wink:

[ReMark]

So you're the person responsible for all those drawings from an outside contractor that have everything drawn on layer 0. I'm glad to have finally run across you as I'd like to give you a piece of my mind!

 

Ditto what my colleagues have already posted. I'd also like to add that it is possible when using blocks to have them inserted on the proper layer automatically. This is just one more way to have an organized drawing.

[rkent]

....It just seems to be strange to me that anyone can open the layer manager dialogue box, select a layer, make it current, close the box then draw a line. It is just such a protracted procedure that I’m sure that others know something that I’m too embarrassed to ask.

Does anyone have any hints tips or even proper (realistic) procedures that I can adopt?

 

Once your layers are in the drawing simply use the Layer Properties Toolbar to select the layer you want and it will be set current.

 

With toolpalettes you can draw a primitive (line, circle, hatch) on a layer, then drag and drop that onto a palette. Now when you drag that off onto the drawing that layer is set and the command is started for you.

 

You can do the same for blocks, xrefs, etc. Place them on the palette and the correct layer will be used from then on.

 

To create the layers you can use a template file so they are present from the start or you can drag and drop them from the template file. A lisp routine can be made to create the layers you most commonly use. Some people have a file with layer names they drag and drop into the drawing. There are other ways but those are a few basic ones.

 

There is a lisp file I have used for years that lets me set the layer by picking an existing object on screen.

 

Finally there are lisp routines that will let you pick an object and the layer is set and the command is started for that primitive.

 

If you want those routines let me know, they aren't ones I have written but they have served me well.

[alanjt]

rkent, he's using LT, no lisp

 

for the simplest approach, just select the layer you want to draw on from the layer control pull-down. you are running 09, so you can become familiar with the following commands:

layfrz

layoff

layiso

laymcur or ai_molc as i've known it.

 

to have all your layers already in the drawing, just create a template (.dwt) and have it loaded every time you start a new drawing.

[rkent]

rkent, he's using LT, no lisp

 

...quote]

 

Never mind.

[dbroada]

I'll put my hands up too, I (we) use very few layers. We occasionaly get drawings with almost as many layers as entities. While certain disciplines benefit from lots of layers there are many that don't. Just because I chose to have few layers doesn't make me a bad draughtsman.

[alanjt]

rkent, he's using LT, no lisp

 

...quote]

 

Never mind.

gets me all the time. i'll be 2 paragraphs in, blah blah'ing about lisp when i finally notice the dreaded LT.

[Peter K]

Yup, very bad habit.

 

Which can be fixed by 3 things

 

1- (as others have said) create a template file where you have standaard layers set up including line type, colour, print or non-print etc.

 

2- Teach yourself to stick to your set up and when you do have to add something which you didn't create a layer for in your template, to add a layer

 

3-Get yourself an extender. LT-Extender is unfortunately not longer around so instead you might want to look into drcauto

http://www.drcauto.com/ltfactory/products/lttoolkitmax/index.html

Yes it will cost you a bit but believe me, it's worth it. Why? Because, if for no other reason, you can use lisp routines. There are lots of lisp routines available, for free, which makes the life of any draftsperson much easier.

 

E.g.: a lisp that will change to a particular layer depending on the command you activate = you click 'line' it changes to (for instance) layer Metal_con01 but when you click 'ray' it automatically switches the current layer to (for instance) Aid_line,etc.

[screencrack]

Well, they say that confession is good for the soul but in this case it’s been good for my draughting practice. Thank you very much indeed to all who have responded. Some have taken the opportunity to try to give advice while others have (understandably) taken this opportunity to tell me what I already know; that my drawings can cause problems for others.I’m afraid that I didn’t give you the full story, so (at the risk of completely horrifying some of you) the situation is as follows.At work, most of my colleagues work on our own drawings with only some being shared occasionally.We “recycle” previous drawings at the start of fresh projects.For example we “lift” an A1 drawing from a previous project, delete the info, save it in the new job file and alter the title box to suit the new project.(I think I just heard CADgirl screaming!!).Anyway that “method” brings in the previous layers, which, given that we are all working in the same industry, is fairly convenient.As a result, I have too many layers, not too few. I then draw the information and at various points it suddenly dawns on me that I have not been allocating the various elements to the appropriate layers. Effectively, I have been treating my screen as a sheet of tracing paper rather than using AutoCAD properly.In my defence I’m not irresponsible, I simply never developed good habits and that could be a reflection of my training, but I’m now trying to correct this deficiency in my work.I realise how infuriating it is for most of you to receive drawings which have such very poor layer discipline and that is why I took advantage of the relative anonymity of the forum to confess.I’m very interested in R-Kent and Peter-k’s helpful suggestions. I’ll try to explore this further.Any further advice is welcome (I’ll even accept more scolding if it helps you to let off some steam!!).Regards to all.

[Cad64]

(I think I just heard CADgirl screaming!!)

 

No, that was me.

 

As we have all suggested, you should be using drawing templates. Recycling drawings is just another very bad habit. Much like drawing on a piece of paper, you can erase the lines you've drawn, but they never completely go away. There is always some remnant of what was drawn previously. And the more you draw and erase, and draw and erase, the more residue is left behind. The same is true for CAD files. Information builds up in the database, filesize increases, errors occur, crashes and ultimately you may find yourself with a corrupt file at some point.

 

The things I've mentioned in this thread are not meant to scold you, or anyone else. I'm just pointing out the pitfalls of your methods in order to help you see a better way. Sometimes you have to take a little bitter with the sweet. :wink:

[screencrack]

Thanks again Cad 64.

What you say actually explains why one of my colleagues has recently experienced some terrible problems with AutoCAD.

It’s clear (I hope) that I am painfully aware of my shortcomings and any advice that I get on this forum is a perfect starting point for me to begin correcting them.

I’m not passing the buck but I honestly think that my training in AutoCAD was aimed at getting images produced and it actually skirted over the need for getting the basics in place.

Also, on a personal note, please don’t concentrate on my (light-hearted) comments about scolding; rather I’d prefer it if you would concentrate on my genuine appreciation and thanks to each individual who has bothered to take the time to respond to my question.

I realise that I am raising basic queries among real AutoCAD enthusiasts so I do appreciate each and every response.

Regards,

[Peter K]

Concerning running Lisp routines to help you with general drawing issues but especially layer assignments, you can go one of two ways. There's the way of using the Toolkit Max (450USD by Drcauto) or spending roughly the same on a complete replacement for Acad LT by getting Bricscad (https://www.bricsys.com).

 

--------

 

Starting from old drawings is even worse then not using different layers for diffferent design entities. Why, you might ask. Because you are not only making matters worse for those that have to work on the drawing after you but you are starting from a bad and possible unstable situation to begin with.

 

Please, do yourself, your collegues and anyone who will receive your and their drawings a big favour and set up one or more templates and in-house rules/standards.

 

Word to the wise: don't overthink it. You need enough constraints so that everyone works similiar but not to many so as to avoid creating the situation that it takes longer to stick to the rules then it does to actually produce drawings.

In my opinion good standards should be easy to remember, easy to follow and have enough flexibility to be easily adapted to changing circumstances.

If your boss has problems with it then explain to him that it not only will make everyone's work more professional but even much more efficient and there for heighten productivity. I still have to see a boss that isn't sensitive to the latter argument

[screencrack]

Thanks again Peter.

The alternative cad programme is interesting but I’m afraid that, since AutoCAD seems to have the marketplace by the throat, I would never be able to convince my managers to buy anything that doesn’t have an Autodesk logo on the box!

However, the drcauto package looks really interesting. I’ll investigate this item. In the meantime, I think the post-it note stuck discretely at a noticeable point on my desk will have to suffice.

I think I will have to draw symbols which only I will understand, as an “aid memoir” in order to avoid difficult questions from colleagues.

Thinking about it though, it may be best to get this topic aired in the office.

I know that some members of staff work well with AutoCAD in some areas while others have weaknesses in other areas.

Human nature being what it is, many would pretend to be appalled at my confessions while taking mental notes of the conversation.

For example, I know that it is common practice to re-use old drawings in the way that I have described and the replies on this board have helped to explain why some of my colleagues have experienced real difficulty.

I work in a large multi-disciplinary organisation which has its own IT section but, since my department is the only one that uses AutoCAD, the IT section insists that, while it must be involved in the purchase and installation of the software they refuse to offer any support for AutoCAD since they are not responsible for recommending the software package that we use!!!!!

Hence the staff develop the bad habits described here, which is the result of minimal training, the machines begin to crash and the IT section don’t know enough about AutoCAD to provide any support!

What an environment to work in!!!!!!

I don’t know what to do I’ll see how feisty I feel tomorrow when I get to my desk.

[Peter K]

If the prices and subscription policies of Autodesk continue to go the direction they are going then you might see your managers reconsider. I know I will be recommending to make the switch the next time that we have to update the cad software to keep up with suppliers - customers and the competition. Afterall, except for the newest features, the intellicad (Bricscad, Zwcad and Dwgeditor as used by Solidworks) variations offer lots more bang for less price then Acad LT and are more backwards compatible with autocad then actual new versions of autocad. Seeing as that the newest features aren't included or are hobbled at best in the LT versions anyways .... e.g. no fields, no full image control, no full colour and gradient control in hatches, etc

 

Hearing the set-up you have to deal with....I truly don't envy you.

 

Our internal IT department consists of 3 people. The head won't get involved in installing cad software. The sysadmin will do a default install but doesn't know anything about acad so can't offer support. And then there's the company geek who helps out with smaller computer problems as well as doing support for 16 autocad licences. The geek is yours truly. Officially I am just one of the piping\mechanical\multi-disciplinary draughtsmen.

However when new cad software is considered, a new plotter gets bought or department and cross-department wide standards are set up, I always seem to be the one that gets stuck with making the proposal to be considered. The good thing about that is that I can seriously nudge, if not steer, it to what I want. The bad thing is that I'm expected to do all that while doing my normal tasks. The message being : be careful what you wish for.

 

On a more serious note, if I was you I would bring it up in conversation with the colleagues. With a bit of luck you might see that several if not the majority of them had been thinking or wondering if some things couldn't be done easier and better. If the majority is willing and wanting then you might see it taking momentum of it's own.

For your sake as well as those that get drawings from you and your collegues, I do hope so.

[screencrack]

Good advice Peter.

It’s amazing, but I have actually met your clones in every other office that I have worked in.

You have an equivalent individual in most offices.

You are the guy who has a real interest in computing. The management take full advantage of your interest and you end up dealing with IT queries from colleagues as well as your own projects.

The fact that my current office doesn’t have its own resident enthusiast (I’m avoiding saying Geek) shows what happens when staff is insufficiently training.

You know that old saying about the one eyed man being a king in the land of the blind?

Well, my employer can’t even seem to find such a partially sighted individual!

[alanjt]

No, that was me.

 

As we have all suggested, you should be using drawing templates. Recycling drawings is just another very bad habit. Much like drawing on a piece of paper, you can erase the lines you've drawn, but they never completely go away. There is always some remnant of what was drawn previously. And the more you draw and erase, and draw and erase, the more residue is left behind. The same is true for CAD files. Information builds up in the database, filesize increases, errors occur, crashes and ultimately you may find yourself with a corrupt file at some point.

 

The things I've mentioned in this thread are not meant to scold you, or anyone else. I'm just pointing out the pitfalls of your methods in order to help you see a better way. Sometimes you have to take a little bitter with the sweet. :wink:

 

This is what i deal with everyday. When i started this job, i was asking some of the users where to find details, blocks, etc. I received answers like: "i just get them out of an old project" "i have some blocks on my c drive, do you want them?" "why should i create my blocks on the 0 layer?" and "how do you create a block?"

[screencrack]

Do you offer them any assistance Alanjt?

[CADMASTER1128]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I’d be grateful for your thoughts.

I am an experienced AutoCAD user, I use 2009 at work.

I have a horrible, guilty secret to reveal about myself which I know is shared by many others.

You see, I have never gotten into the habit of using layers properly.

I prepare drawing and (when I remember) I open the “match properties” tool and allocate the lines to layers (if I have to, I draw a single line in the layer that I need to send an object to and then use match properties) but I know that my drawings are really undisciplined in terms of layering.

This is a fault which I have noted in a number of colleagues and consultants and I would like to develop the good habits necessary to allocate lines to the correct layer.

Does anyone have a useful tip or two on how to achieve this?

It just seems to be strange to me that anyone can open the layer manager dialogue box, select a layer, make it current, close the box then draw a line. It is just such a protracted procedure that I’m sure that others know something that I’m too embarrassed to ask.

Does anyone have any hints tips or even proper (realistic) procedures that I can adopt?

 

I made a Layers Tutorial...Its 1.14 MB, If you want it let me know I'll be more than happy to send it your way!