Question for Discussion

[GCarr78]

Okay, so the "CAD Utilization in Construction / Engineering / Architecture" debate has made me think, and I want to pose a question for discussion.

 

Employee "A" Comes from a University with a degree in Design / Construction profession. Begins work at the bottom of a firm drafting with little or no CAD training. He/She may know design and profession, does not know how to draw or detail.

 

Employee "B" Comes from a Technological College / University with a degree / diploma in CAD Technology in the same Design / Construction Profession and starts at the bottom of the same firm drafting with little or no training in the profession. He/She may know how to draw, but does not know design or the profession.

 

Which would be easier / more effective & efficient?

 

Train Employee "A" to draw and detail properly in CAD, the designs he/she helps create?

 

Train Employee "B" in the business of whatever profession she/he is in so they can design and detail?

 

Aaaaaand GO!

[tzframpton]

Honestly, it's a per situation basis only. Most of your "gurus" on this board and others have little and some have zero "education". Passion is what drives every human being to be good at something, and you've to have the desire to open up AutoCAD and try to be good at it.

 

You could take employee A or B, that come from two totally different educational backgrounds, and they both could suck balls, or become a CAD drafting/detailing hoss in no time. It depends on the individual.

 

On top of that, working in the field is probably more important in some areas of design. Actually KNOWING what you're detailing or drafting has a lot to do with being a good designer as well.

[GCarr78]

Honestly, it's a per situation basis only. Most of your "gurus" on this board and others have little and some have zero "education". Passion is what drives every human being to be good at something, and you've to have the desire to open up AutoCAD and try to be good at it.

 

You could take employee A or B, that come from two totally different educational backgrounds, and they both could suck balls, or become a CAD drafting/detailing hoss in no time. It depends on the individual.

 

On top of that, working in the field is probably more important in some areas of design. Actually KNOWING what you're detailing or drafting has a lot to do with being a good designer as well.

Agreed, thats why I started them out of school, both have the same professional "exposure". Also agreed that there are MILLIONS of variables, but for this discussion I was hoping that the question could be taken at face value. As a basis for the discussion.

 

My question was merely to discuss Okay Employe "A" or "B" have these skills at the start, which could be more apt to round out as better professional? Variables notwithstanding.

[tzframpton]

I know what you're saying, but its really hard for me to stray away from reality of real world scenarios. Obviously the person with the actual CAD experience would be better when you give strictly a paper example like this one, so B should be better and more efficient on the training.

[Organic]

I'd defiantly go A myself. Its going to be a lot easier (and better off in the long run) to teach some basic CAD and AutoCAD to them than it is to teach someone how to design.

[GCarr78]

I know what you're saying, but its really hard for me to stray away from reality of real world scenarios. Obviously the person with the actual CAD experience would be better when you give strictly a paper example like this one, so B should be better and more efficient on the training.

 

I know but this was to be a "paper example" question, there are a million different scenarios that could be taken into account... I am just looking for a snapshot opinion.

[GCarr78]

I'd defiantly go A myself. Its going to be a lot easier (and better off in the long run) to teach some basic CAD and AutoCAD to them than it is to teach someone how to design.

 

But couldn't you argue that most people now need MORE than basic CAD, particularly with larger firms?

[Jack_O'neill]

But couldn't you argue that most people now need MORE than basic CAD, particularly with larger firms?

 

In theory, you're probably right. That will depend on the firm, and their drafting standards and practices and even which cad package they use. We had a young man that was a pretty decent designer, but all his CAD experience was in Solidworks. He hated AutoCAD and fought with it every time he tried to use it. Someone who knows all there is to know about Revit is going to be lost in AutoCAD.

 

Styk was right about that...if you are passionate about it, you'll climb to the top. If you hate doing it, it won't matter, you won't be very good at it. If you can get someone who's a good designer, who can design your product be it houses, cars, or door knobs, you can teach them fairly quickly to use the cad package you have.

[GCarr78]

In theory' date=' you're probably right. That will depend on the firm, and their drafting standards and practices and even which cad package they use. We had a young man that was a pretty decent designer, but all his CAD experience was in Solidworks. He hated AutoCAD and fought with it every time he tried to use it. Someone who knows all there is to know about Revit is going to be lost in AutoCAD.

 

Styk was right about that...if you are passionate about it, you'll climb to the top. If you hate doing it, it won't matter, you won't be very good at it. If you can get someone who's a good designer, who can design your product be it houses, cars, or door knobs, you can teach them fairly quickly to use the cad package you have.[/quote']

Well okay, so lets say they are both equally passionate about succeeding.. each of them loves their work. The field is still level... which employee can adapt quicker? or utilize both skils faster and more efficiently?

[tzframpton]

Well okay, so lets say they are both equally passionate about succeeding.. each of them loves their work. The field is still level... which employee can adapt quicker? or utilize both skils faster and more efficiently?

GCarr, I'm really trying to not sound rude here but again, you nor anyone can possibly answer that question because every single situation is going to be different in the real world.

 

If everything is "equal" and each of them are equally passionate about succeeding, then I would say both would do just fine and it wouldn't matter ultimately.

 

For instance, in our office we have 6 CAD drafters, 4 of which are mechanical engineers in training. I am the best at AutoCAD and Revit and I've had WAAAAY less education than any of the other five guys. And each of the other guys varies with booksmart vs real world training, but they're all pretty equal in designing and detailing, honestly.

[GCarr78]

StykFacE, your not sounding rude at all!

 

I'm not looking for a definitive answer... never was the intent... I'm looking for discussion... theories and ideas... If I wanted an answer I would have used my own opinion on the topic and not asked in the first place, everyone will have their theories and ideas and opinions and expertise and examples, which is why I initated the discussion in the first place!

 

Are the questions we CAN'T answer more interesting than the questions we can?

[tzframpton]

lol, I hear ya. I guess my point is, the question is ultimately not a practical question due to the reality of the "real world scenario" that must go into play no matter what with the situation.

[Jack_O'neill]

lol, I hear ya. I guess my point is, the question is ultimately not a practical question due to the reality of the "real world scenario" that must go into play no matter what with the situation.

 

I think that if you look at it very simply, you could probably teach someone to draft quicker than teaching them to design, but as you say, it all depends. When it comes right down to it, you're going to have to teach the person to draft according to your company's wishes either way.

 

In my own experience, it has been easier to teach someone to use autocad who has no cad experience at all than to retrain someone who had a lot of experience with a different package.

[GCarr78]

Bah!..practical questions are for the begginers forum...

 

I've been using CAD for over half my life and its just interesting to see how it has been adapted in those "real world scenarios" and in the professional worldand that is one of the questions I have been thinking bout, mostly to improve our firm's approach when hiring new personel. We've had many bad experiences with University grads that THINK they know CAD, but really struggle with reaching the level they need to be at, along with excelling at the profession itself.

[rkent]

I pick B. This is splitting hairs but I guess I would rather start with the CAD skills and take the time to teach the other. My reasoning is that B could help right away with getting drawings going with markups being fed to B. I would also rather teach the technical stuff than the AutoCAD stuff.

 

As others have pointed out there are so many variables that it is a coin toss. If I was hiring two then I would get one of each. If I already had B on staff then I would hire A, etc.

[Dipali]

I'd defiantly go A myself. Its going to be a lot easier (and better off in the long run) to teach some basic CAD and AutoCAD to them than it is to teach someone how to design.

 

I agree with Jack on this on the basis of my personal experiance with my initiall employees.

 

But couldn't you argue that most people now need MORE than basic CAD, particularly with larger firms?

 

yes, but as said by Jack in below quote the person will stil need to adapt the standards of the company.

 

In theory' date=' you're probably right. That will depend on the firm, and their drafting standards and practices and even which cad package they use.

 

Styk was right about that...if you are passionate about it, you'll climb to the top. If you hate doing it, it won't matter, you won't be very good at it. If you can get someone who's a good designer, who can design your product be it houses, cars, or door knobs, you can teach them fairly quickly to use the cad package you have.[/quote']

 

this is very true form my experiance. In my last job I was project manager & was leading team of drafters & it was very difiicult to make them basics of the building so that they make less mistakes & all we were doing was Documentation but it required croos checking of the different aspect of the project i.e. floor plan/elevation/roof plan etc.

they all were good at cad but will make so many mistakes even after explaining them things repetatively because in buliding no senario is identical & you have to think logical, which comes from the basic education about the subject.

 

But if the uni they studied from does not provide good basic education than you may end up teaching them both. That's waht happen to me with my first employee. she was diploma in architecture but didn't know basics & I learnt about it once she started working & making silly mistakes.

 

So yaa, it all depends on diff. senario, I will still go with 'A' Because my experince with next 2 employees who were degree holder in architecture, were more useful to me & it was easier for me to teach them cad as they worked. They new baisic cad but had no clue of paper space/xref etc..

[Noahma]

I would say that I would choose the CAD draftsman over the other. In my line of work, Design is a very personal thing. Everyone has their own styles, their own ways to get a floorplan the way our clients wish. One guy in our office tends to like ultra contemporary, one guy prairie, one guy a mix of all and myself who likes traditional designs. We all have our strong points when it comes to the design itself, and is something that is refined over time. when it comes to something as rigid as CAD, someone that can walk in and draw something for me, is going to impress me more than someone that can come in and lay out an idea in words or sketches. (Remember the pay comes with the nitty gritty like details and construction documents). You can always nurture a fresh green designer to find his / her style and refine it, it takes time. A guy ready to work out of the box with CAD as support staff is going to be worth more in terms of production than a designer that can come out with cool designs, but lack the ability to bring them to construction documents.

[Jack_O'neill]

This has been really interesting. Just my opinion, but I think this discussion very clearly illustrates that designing and drafting are two separate lines of work, and while they can overlap and be done by the same person, it's probably better to have 2 people, each skilled in one or the other, instead of one who is really skilled at one bit and mediocre at the other. If you're building a house, the framing carpenter can most likely handle a paint brush, and the painter can probably drive nails, but why not let the framer do the framing and the painter paint?

[GCarr78]

This has been really interesting. Just my opinion' date=' but I think this discussion very clearly illustrates that designing and drafting are two separate lines of work, and while they can overlap and be done by the same person, it's probably better to have 2 people, each skilled in one or the other, instead of one who is really skilled at one bit and mediocre at the other. If you're building a house, the framing carpenter can most likely handle a paint brush, and the painter can probably drive nails, but why not let the framer do the framing and the painter paint?[/quote']

 

Agreed, but I do think every so often, you'll get an employee that will WANT to learn how to do more, be better and expand their skills and learn about the work they are drafting and not just draft.

 

It has been my experience that the best drafters know WHY they are drafting and WHAT they are drafting for. Knowledge and understanding of the business they are in makes for better work and more complete work, and as a by-product they learn the business. That takes good managers to teach rather than instruct

[Jack_O'neill]

Agreed, but I do think every so often, you'll get an employee that will WANT to learn how to do more, be better and expand their skills and learn about the work they are drafting and not just draft.

 

It has been my experience that the best drafters know WHY they are drafting and WHAT they are drafting for. Knowledge and understanding of the business they are in makes for better work and more complete work, and as a by-product they learn the business. That takes good managers to teach rather than instruct

 

We find ourselves in total agreement! How did that happen?