Jump to content
Pixiesoft

Why do architects use Scale?

Recommended Posts

Pixiesoft

I have never really understood why use scale. The only reason I can come too is that with scale you dont have to dimension everything up in print on the actual drawing.

 

But what I don't get in on drawings when there is physical dims why not do it 1:1 instead of scale. seems like extra work to me or can someone elaborate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Organic

I don't understand what you are saying. Are you talking about them not drawing a model 1:1? Or are you talking about the actual scales used to represent features of the built environment (i.e. buildings etc) on a plan?

 

What annoys me (although is trivial really) is that they work in mm while I work in m :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tzframpton

If you used 1:1 scale, 99.9999999% of the items drawn would not fit onto the page.

 

Scaling is necessary for many things since you cannot provide a dimension for everyone involved in the project. Take my trade for example. How would our estimators bid our jobs without scaling? Do you think the architect or engineer is responsible for providing every possible dimension on a plan drawing? There's no way they would be able to provide that as each mechanical subcontractor estimates a plan differently. Plus, imagine the mess that would create for the thousands of dimensions that would be needed for certain jobs.

 

And how would our field guys be able to pull a scaled dimension in the field? Do you expect the architect or engineer to pull a dimension off each column grid line placing every single run of pipe or ductwork? Absolutely not. It is the subcontractors job to coordinate and install, not the architects or engineers.

 

It is extremely critical that every job be scaled with few exceptions (certain details, schematics, etc).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pixiesoft
I don't understand what you are saying. Are you talking about them not drawing a model 1:1? Or are you talking about the actual scales used to represent features of the built environment (i.e. buildings etc) on a plan?

 

What annoys me (although is trivial really) is that they work in mm while I work in m :)

 

Yes. I work in mm as we are still fabricators ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tzframpton

steel* fabricators

 

;)

 

And I misunderstood your "1:1 scale" comment earlier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
eldon
I have never really understood why use scale. The only reason I can come too is that with scale you dont have to dimension everything up in print on the actual drawing.

 

But what I don't get in on drawings when there is physical dims why not do it 1:1 instead of scale. seems like extra work to me or can someone elaborate?

 

Just imagine drawing a map at 1:1. You would not be able to see the features on the ground because they would be covered by a sheet of paper :shock:

 

I am sure that if you think about that, you can see the benefits of producing scaled plans. Have you tried to Google "scaled drawings"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dbroada
Just imagine drawing a map at 1:1.
but isn't that what people mean by having a "full size" map? I've never understood what one of them is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
eldon
but isn't that what people mean by having a "full size" map? I've never understood what one of them is.

 

I am not too sure either, but these Sat-Nav machines must have very intricate paper folding to get it all into such a small container :shock:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jack_O'neill
I am not too sure either, but these Sat-Nav machines must have very intricate paper folding to get it all into such a small container :shock:

 

You must have one of the old ones. The new ones have all gone green. There's no paper, it's all done with dry erase markers and a tiny plotter that draws on a loop of flexible markerboard. Erases as it scrolls off.:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Organic
If you used 1:1 scale, 99.9999999% of the items drawn would not fit onto the page.

 

Scaling is necessary for many things since you cannot provide a dimension for everyone involved in the project. Take my trade for example. How would our estimators bid our jobs without scaling? Do you think the architect or engineer is responsible for providing every possible dimension on a plan drawing? There's no way they would be able to provide that as each mechanical subcontractor estimates a plan differently. Plus, imagine the mess that would create for the thousands of dimensions that would be needed for certain jobs.

 

And how would our field guys be able to pull a scaled dimension in the field? Do you expect the architect or engineer to pull a dimension off each column grid line placing every single run of pipe or ductwork? Absolutely not. It is the subcontractors job to coordinate and install, not the architects or engineers.

 

It is extremely critical that every job be scaled with few exceptions (certain details, schematics, etc).

 

The golden rule here is to never scale off of a plan (due to the possibility of an error and litigation as a result). Scale interpretation may lead to errors. If unsure it is just easier to make a phone call and clarify what it should be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jack_O'neill

IF I understand what you are asking, then it's as Stykface said and drawings almost have to be scaled to fit on the page. If you were to draw an elevation view of a building that was 100 stories tall, you'd need a sheet of paper over 1000 feet long to draw it at 1:1.

 

If you are asking about why would they scale something in model space instead of drawing 1:1, then there are a number of reasons for that, but in my opinion, few of them are valid today. A long time ago, Autocad didn't have the layout tabs we see today. So, to get what ever it was you were drawing on a page, it was necessary to draw to a scale, just as if you were drawing it by hand. Even after paper space was invented, many people either could not or would not understand how to use it, so the practice continued. Older firms, like a couple of my clients, have done it that was for so long, that they have many thousands of drawings (standard details, part drawings, assembly drawings, etc) that are used every day by thier drafting staff, and to change how it is done now would actually be detrimental. It would take dozens if not hundreds of people a very long time to go through every drawing in the archive and make the necessary changes, so they continue using an outdated practice because of the weight of history. The "thats the way we've always done it" mode, you see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pixiesoft
If you used 1:1 scale, 99.9999999% of the items drawn would not fit onto the page.

 

Scaling is necessary for many things since you cannot provide a dimension for everyone involved in the project. Take my trade for example. How would our estimators bid our jobs without scaling? Do you think the architect or engineer is responsible for providing every possible dimension on a plan drawing? There's no way they would be able to provide that as each mechanical subcontractor estimates a plan differently. Plus, imagine the mess that would create for the thousands of dimensions that would be needed for certain jobs.

 

And how would our field guys be able to pull a scaled dimension in the field? Do you expect the architect or engineer to pull a dimension off each column grid line placing every single run of pipe or ductwork? Absolutely not. It is the subcontractors job to coordinate and install, not the architects or engineers.

 

It is extremely critical that every job be scaled with few exceptions (certain details, schematics, etc).

 

I get all that but we often get detail drawings from engineers and architects that show a connection plate for instance with hole sizes/plate thickness and overall area but it will still be done at say 1:20. Doesn't make sense at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pixiesoft
steel* fabricators

 

;)

 

haha! We manufacture still photos..NOT!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pixiesoft
IF I understand what you are asking' date=' then it's as Stykface said and drawings almost have to be scaled to fit on the page. If you were to draw an elevation view of a building that was 100 stories tall, you'd need a sheet of paper over 1000 feet long to draw it at 1:1.

 

If you are asking about why would they scale something in model space instead of drawing 1:1, then there are a number of reasons for that, but in my opinion, few of them are valid today. A long time ago, Autocad didn't have the layout tabs we see today. So, to get what ever it was you were drawing on a page, it was necessary to draw to a scale, just as if you were drawing it by hand. Even after paper space was invented, many people either could not or would not understand how to use it, so the practice continued. Older firms, like a couple of my clients, have done it that was for so long, that they have many thousands of drawings (standard details, part drawings, assembly drawings, etc) that are used every day by thier drafting staff, and to change how it is done now would actually be detrimental. It would take dozens if not hundreds of people a very long time to go through every drawing in the archive and make the necessary changes, so they continue using an outdated practice because of the weight of history. The "thats the way we've always done it" mode, you see.

 

That was exactly what I meant. I sould have asked 'Why in model space' DOH!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Organic
I get all that but we often get detail drawings from engineers and architects that show a connection plate for instance with hole sizes/plate thickness and overall area but it will still be done at say 1:20. Doesn't make sense at all.

 

What is wrong with a scale of 1:20? So long as it is not minuscule on the page etc, I don't see the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dbroada
If you are asking about why would they scale something in model space instead of drawing 1:1' date=' then there are a number of reasons for that, but in my opinion, few of them are valid today. A long time ago, Autocad didn't have the layout tabs we see today. So, to get what ever it was you were drawing on a page, it was necessary to draw to a scale, just as if you were drawing it by hand.[/quote']We only use model space, partly because of the thousands of drawings we have but also as nobody has ever given us a compeling reason to change. However, even using model space only everything SHOULD STILL BE DRAWN FULL SIZE. The one exception is the border which can be inserted at the most appropriate scale whether that is 1:10, 1:1 or 10:1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pixiesoft
What is wrong with a scale of 1:20? So long as it is not minuscule on the page etc, I don't see the problem.

 

If it can be done in model at 1:20 or so then why not in 1:1 and use viewports?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Patrick Hughes
What annoys me (although is trivial really) is that they work in mm while I work in m :)

 

And here it was my understanding the metric system is much easier for conversion then imperial - you just multiply or divide by factors of ten. :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jack_O'neill
We only use model space, partly because of the thousands of drawings we have but also as nobody has ever given us a compeling reason to change. However, even using model space only everything SHOULD STILL BE DRAWN FULL SIZE. The one exception is the border which can be inserted at the most appropriate scale whether that is 1:10, 1:1 or 10:1.

 

That's fine if it works for you. One of the really great things about AutoCAD or any cad program for that matter is the nearly infinite number of ways to bend it to what you need it to do. And I agree, it should still be drawn full size, and then plotted to whatever scale will get it on the paper you need. One of my clients early on didn't understand that you could do that apparently, and continued to scale things just as they had done when drawing by hand. They have literally 10's of thousands of drawings archived now. As I mentioned in another thread, they have some that are half scale, some 3/8, some are quarter scale. Most are labled, but some are not so you get to try to guess.

 

On thier most commonly used parts and details, I have corrected that situation. When time and opportunity presents its self, I fix more of them. If I ever get them all done, I intend to offer to sell them back. We'll see which way the wind blows that day, but I doubt they'll go for it. "That's the way we've always done it" weighs very heavily on that company.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
daft vader
The golden rule here is to never scale off of a plan (due to the possibility of an error and litigation as a result). Scale interpretation may lead to errors. If unsure it is just easier to make a phone call and clarify what it should be.

 

If every line is draw correctly and lets face it that shouldnt be a problem should it ? why not scale off a drawing providing its been plotted on the right paper and scale and isnt so small you can't make out the start and finish of a line.

 

I hate when i see the box saying "this drawing must not be scaled" on site working drawings (its just a cop out to cover their mistakes) , if thats the case then they should add dims we cant ring the who ever everytime we need a dim of a drawing can we ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...