tzframpton Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 REVIT has not fully fulfilled its BIM promise. Anyways, what does the contractor constructing the building need in the field? Does he or his subcontractors need BIM? No. They need a set of working drawings. Those happen to be ...drumroll please... 2D drawings.Revit creates 2D construction drawings. What's the point here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReMark Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 The point is they are 2D drawings....dumb drawings. There is nothing smarter about the piece of paper the contractor is walking around with (and working off of) despite the fact it was created with a MCAD program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzframpton Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 The point is they are 2D drawings....dumb drawings. There is nothing smarter about the piece of paper the contractor is walking around with (and working off of) despite the fact it was created with a MCAD program.This point is completely irrelevant to the point of using a bidirectional parametric BIM application to produce construction contract documents. I think the point is, you can't get your mind away from "drawings" which is why most people don't understand the value of Revit at first. Revit is a collaborative project management, design, and engineering tool to create a "virtual building". When you're done with it, you then create "sheets" which represent the 2D large format documents that the sub contractors will use to bid and the field will use to install. You really still think Revit is "drawing but better" right? haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReMark Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Revit really is a database for the life cycle of the building and as such it has value. For producing drawings it is no better than AutoCAD. haha I have to go get dinner. You can chew on that for a while. haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperCAD Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 The only argument in my opinion is the price tag. Exactly. If they got rid of LT and offered the full version for less than $1,000 then we wouldn't be having this discussion. just pointing out that there are hundreds of needs that vanilla autocad can fill. And I think that we're pointing out that there are much more affordable options to do the simple work that people need. Again, if AutoCAN'T were more affordable this wouldn't be an issue. But to charge that much money for a program that they basically just give away with any autodesk product is bordering on theft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven-g Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Keep your hands off LT (Grrr...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f700es Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Exactly. If they got rid of LT and offered the full version for less than $1,000 then we wouldn't be having this discussion. And I think that we're pointing out that there are much more affordable options to do the simple work that people need. Again, if AutoCAN'T were more affordable this wouldn't be an issue. But to charge that much money for a program that they basically just give away with any autodesk product is bordering on theft. We are still not talking about the same thing. I am not talking about simple 2d drafting. Yes there are Way more afordable options out there. I am talking about 3rd party apps built to run on full AutoCAD (can) that will not work on things like DraftSight or other 2D systems. My CAFM software is one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReMark Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 With all the talk of things AutoCAD can't do that Revit or Inventor can just stop and think about all the things AutoCAD has done in the hands of some very smart, determined and capable people. We've seen it demonstrated here by some of our own members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzframpton Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 With all the talk of things AutoCAD can't do that Revit or Inventor can just stop and think about all the things AutoCAD has done in the hands of some very smart, determined and capable people. We've seen it demonstrated here by some of our own members.I'm never going to fault AutoCAD for not being able to do something it doesn't advertise to do, like BIM or VDC. That's Autodesk Revit or Bentley's ArchiCAD's domain. The industry that I'm in, AutoCAD is out and it's going out fast. Very fast. Not because it's a program that's lacking, it's because it wasn't designed to be fitted for BIM and VDC. But still.... thousands of dollars.... it just doesn't sit well with me anymore now that I've used other programs professionally for a number of years. If I were making a business decision for a design firm that wanted 2D only drafting tools, I'd be on the hunt for a cheap AutoCAD alternative that also has Tool Palettes and can accept LISP files, and run with it instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f700es Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Also as it has the speed and fluidity that AutoCAD has. I've tried most of the ACAD clones and none have that imho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzframpton Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Yeah, I will agree that AutoCAD is very speedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReMark Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I usually recommend Draftsight for those who only need 2D and don't want to spend another dime. For those still willing to part with the green I recommend Bricscad Pro ([$695 with full lisp support and direct modeling] or Bricscad Platinum [$995]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven-g Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 If only life was so simple, what happens when you run into a problem and need to look for help. Or you are collaborating with other firms that do use Autocad. Or as a user and you are job hunting with a fist full of diplomas in WONDER CAD, because it was free and that's what your last employer used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReMark Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Are you asking me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzframpton Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 If only life was so simple, what happens when you run into a problem and need to look for help.Purchasing a DWG based CAD application usually means support comes with it. Freebie clones is not something I would stick my employees with, obviously. Or you are collaborating with other firms that do use Autocad.It's still DWG... so things will still work. Granted, things like Sheet Set Manager, etc wouldn't happen but that's an internal-only scenario anyways. The company I just left used Microstation and AutoCAD together with very little issues. Or as a user and you are job hunting with a fist full of diplomas in WONDER CAD, because it was free and that's what your last employer used.*shrugs* not my problem. Employment is a mutual alliance, between employ-er and employ-ee. Both sides have their reasons behind certain decisions. I just left my company because we didn't utilize Revit enough and I didn't want to become stagnant in my career. So if someone is interested in a company that doesn't use AutoCAD, they most certainly can decline the position and look elsewhere or get on board and learn an alternative CAD program. Since you brought that topic up, I'm seeing people go through this now with AutoCAD actually. At my last company, the CEO made an announcement that everyone's going 3D - period. Civil 3D for certain departments, Revit for other departments, and so forth. There were a few "AutoCAD's never going away" guys who instantly, in one day, went from knowing it all to totally back to ground zero. If unfortunate times fall on some people who get laid off, or other reasons of job loss, and all they have is AutoCAD on their resume (in certain markets) then they're starting to not get any looks at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReMark Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 The number of companies still looking for people with AutoCAD experience far outnumbers all others. It is not uncommon for me to see companies asking for people with AutoCAD experience and then state it has to be in an older version too. That gets a chuckle out of me every time. Last week in was some company (might have been a mill shop) that said "experience using AutoCAD 2000". Really? 2000? I guess they want to get their money's worth out of the program before upgrading. I think we have had a couple of forum members change jobs only to find out they went backward in time in regards to the version of AutoCAD they were now using. You know that's one of the questions I might have brought up in the interview BEFORE making the jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzframpton Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 The number of companies still looking for people with AutoCAD experience far outnumbers all others.This may be a true statistic, but I work in a specific field so this statement does not apply. People who do high-end product manufacturing and design will be Inventor or SolidWorks guys. So people like us can care less about a global statistic, because the subsequent statistics are not true for us. Location dictates this stat as well. I live in Dallas, Texas, where the construction markets continue to flourish year by year. All construction companies around this area are having record-breaking years almost every year. If you're in Dallas, Texas in the A/E/C market working for a reputable company then you will use Revit or some other comparable BIM application. If not yet, then soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReMark Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 BIM - If only it would live up to all the hype. When you drink the Cool-Aid take small sips; don't gulp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven-g Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 My comments where in general, the company I am with are looking around for new software, have been for a couple of years, it's not serious yet, we are moving location in the next year or so, and it will happen / or not, then,. It's not a financial decision it's about productivity, the serious contender is Topsolid, it looks great, honest, but who uses it, take a look at the forums the last post was a week ago there are 3 groups that have had a comment this year. That's the beauty of Autocad, the support and the knowledge base. It's not so much the program itself that make it so popular, it's you guys, it's the stuff you don't pay for that make Autocad so appealing, the fact that everyone knows what it is. The fact that it is the industry standard. It might not be true, But it's the one that "nine out of ten cats prefer" (old advert). Ask anyone not using a drafting program, what do you use to make drawings and guess what the answer will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzframpton Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Ask anyone not using a drafting program, what do you use to make drawings and guess what the answer will be.Again, not comparable. Revit, for instance, is not a drafting program, although it has tools to do so if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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