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JimJames1978

Help with Penn Foster structural drafting plate 1

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ReMark

It's the steel decking that allows a contractor to pour the slab for the second floor and the roof.  The decking is supported by the channels which in turn are clipped to the web of the girders.

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JimJames1978

Great, how do I figure out what height the concrete should be? There are numbers on the drawing posted here but they are hard to see and also just writing any random number doesn't seem right without knowing why. Are they generally the same size as the concrete slab centered on the pillars at the first floor? The instructions don't say a height.

Edited by JimJames1978

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ReMark

You're right, P-F does not specify the slab thickness for the second floor nor for the roof.  Most students who have shared images of their drawings have elected to make the slabs six inches thick.  The thicker the slab is the stronger it is.  Four to six inches is a typical range for poured concrete floor slabs.

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JimJames1978

I'm back trying to finish the project up after taking a week off for vacation. I'm on the last two detail drawings but having a lot of issues with the detail for the pillar/footing/column connection. I still don't have a clue how the rebar is supposed to be drawn (the only example we are given is a tiny image in the booklet that is confusing to make out or even understand) and in the detail it has to be done correctly as you are required to dimension it. How is one supposed to draw #6 rebar @8" OC both ways with a 3" clear all around and a 2" overlap? From what I can make out in the example image in the booklet it looks like it should be two L shaped bars with a 2 inch overlap near the bottom parts of the L, but then how long are the bars supposed to be and at what point are they supposed to start heading upwards vertically? The example in the structural drafting booklet is confusing as well because it states in the leader note that about these two L-shaped bars that there is #3 ties in them. I cannot distinguish what is the tie versus the rebar. I've tried doing searches on drawing 2d rebar but there appears to be very little info out there about it. It all seems to be for drawing 3d rebar.

 

Here is what I came up with based on what I saw. Does this look correct and if not what is it supposed to look like? I put the rebar in green with a line weight of .30mm in order to comply with what Penn Foster says as far as the formatting for lines. I basically guessed on the spacing between the rebar at the bottom which is horizontal and the rebar above it which is horizontal/vertical as well as the space between the two L shaped bars. I made the donuts 3/4" diameter to comply with #6 rebar and spaced them 8":

 

image.thumb.png.eee58a9a9d0d12ab8fe77d72a410e1e8.png

 


Secondly it calls to detail the rebar in the pillars. There is no reference whatsoever anywhere in the project booklet to there being rebar in the pillar. Seriously, did Penn Foster just leave out an entire instruction about how we were supposed to draw rebar in the pillar and then tell you to detail it anyway?


Thanks again

Edited by JimJames1978

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ReMark

I'm definitely not a fan of Imgur.  If you are using Windows 7 or above try using the Snipping Tool and pasting the image into your reply.

 

Images of the details you are inquiring about (Plate 7 - details E & E1) can be found in other threads referencing this project.

 

The keyway in your image is incorrectly drawn.  It should basically look like the letter "U" with the bottom being 4" in length and the two sides being 2" in height.

 

Re: rebar in columns.  See page 11 of the project instructions, specifically the last bullet point.  It calls for #6 rebar in the column with 3" clearance from the sides of the column.  The example in the structural drafting booklet (I do not have a copy) that you mention most likely depicts a spacing of 8" (vertically) between the horizontal rebars.  I would space the first rebar in the column 4" above the top of the footing.  Subsequent rebars would be 8" on center.  

Edited by ReMark

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JimJames1978

Where exactly? I've looked through the two threads I was linked and this is the only image pertaining to Plate E:

bar.jpg

That looks like only the rebar on the bottom of the footing and whatever the blue hidden line above it is is cut off. If that blue line is the rebar we are expected to draw vertically, it looks absolutely nothing like the example we are given to look at in the course work.

 

I changed the image to the snipping tool.

Edited by JimJames1978

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ReMark

There are definitely more than just two threads that deal with the Penn-Foster structural drafting project.  Prior to the forum's new look I could have easily found most if not all of them but that's not the case now.  I'll see what I can come up with.

 

I don't recognize that particular detail.  My guess however would be that the blue hidden lines are being used to depict "J" shaped anchor bolts at the base of a column.

 

 

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JimJames1978

Thanks I'd appreciate it if you could. It is quite difficult to search for threads on this board. I'm sure there are other things I've done incorrectly as I did the keyway. They really threw us off into the deep end on this project.

 

I see the instruction you are referring to. I somehow continuously misread it and thought it was referring to the footing still as it simply says "all-around" with no reference to the pillar till after that instruction. The example image we are given is an extremely tiny image of a footing/pillar and in the image there is a callout for "4 5 Diameter Vert. W/3 Diameter Ties 6" O.C.". The rebar itself is draw similar to the way I had it in my post above except there are 2 horizontal thick lines one at the top and one in the center of the 2 bars. There is also a callout for "2-4 Diameter Cont. 3" UP/DN" and they are drawn as just a donut or a circle with no bar.

 

Yes I believe those are the anchor bolts. As they look identical to the one I drew for the elevation view. Still though I've had to re-do my drawings multiple times now because something like that has popped up and totally thrown me for a loop. I will go ahead and try to get the rebar set up the way you described.

Edited by JimJames1978

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ReMark

This thread may be of some value to you.  There are 194 replies.

 

 

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JimJames1978

That thread has certainly provided me with a lot of help. I appreciate you taking the time to find that for me ReMark.

 

Though I will say I can't believe someone actually tried to pay for someone to do their drawings for them.... That's an embarrassment.

Edited by JimJames1978

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JimJames1978

I've just about finished up the project and am doing some last minute touch ups. Still a bit confused on what to put for the scale on the first 4 plates. Since this project is done with architectural units I can't simply type in the decimal scale I used for the title block (such as 1:100), so what am I supposed to put in for the scaling if I was to scale up the title block by 100?

 

Also there is a confusing instruction in the booklet about setting the LT scale for the details. It states that the scale is 1/2"=1' and that we should count how many half inches are in a foot (24 obviously) and then set the LT scale to that. Well firstly the scale isn't 1/2"=1' at least not from what I can tell. We were told to draw the details at actual size and then scale them up by either 2x or 4x for the secondary details and then told to write "varies" for the scale in the title block. What exactly is this direction telling us to do and does it have any effect on how I should have drawn the details or scaled the title block? I was under the assumption we were to scale the title block to fit around the drawing.

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ReMark

1:100 would not be an acceptable scale for a drawing that should have been created using imperial units.  In this case those units would be Architectural. 

 

Note that on page 4 of the instructions the student is asked to draw a representative title block and border that will fit on a sheet size of 11" x 17".  On page 20 of the instructions regarding foundation details E and E1 the student is told the drawing will be plotted at a scale of 1/2" = 1'-0".  As you state the scale factor is 24.  So let's do the math.  11 x 24 = 264 inches and 17 x 24 = 408 inches.  264 / 12 = 22 feet and 408 / 12 = 34 feet.  Your onscreen sheet size should measure 22' x 34'.  If it doesn't then you have done something wrong.

Edited by ReMark

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JimJames1978

I swapped the dunits to decimal when I inserted the title block so I could easily scale the title blocks with the intention of later figuring out the architectural scale.

 

The instructions state very clearly "Draw this at actual size" for the first detail of C, D, F, and E. You are then told "scale this drawing" for the further details at either 2x or 4x. It's not till you get to the part about inserting the title block that you are given the 1/2"=1' instruction and told to change the LT scale.

 

The instructions also say that you won't need to print or plot your drawing so what does the plotting size matter here?

Edited by JimJames1978

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ReMark

On plate 6 the student has to create four details: D, D1, F and F1.  Details D and F are full size.  Details D1 and F1 are actually scaled up by a factor of 4.  The sheet size remains 22'x34' which corresponds to a scale factor of 24.  The instructions clearly state "Plate 6 will be plotted at a scale of 1/2" = 1'-0"."  It matters for two reasons.  1) It's called out in the instructions and 2) instructors will test plot at least one of the required plates to verify the student followed the instructions.

 

On plate 7 the student has to create two details: E and E1.  Detail E is drawn at full scale.  Detail E1 is scaled up by a factor of four as called for on page 20 of the instructions.  It is also noted that "Plate 7 will be plotted at a scale of 1/2" = 1'-0".  The sheet size remains 22'x34' which corresponds to a scale factor of 24.

 

Now you have a choice.  You can elect to follow my advice, which matches the instructions, or you can ignore it.  If you choose to ignore it then in essence you are interpreting the instructions differently.  Honestly that really doesn't affect me as I am not the one who will be submitting the drawings for a grade; you are.  The decision is yours.  Whatever you decide to do I hope you get a satisfactory grade.  Good luck.  

 

Note: For those of you who are not familiar with this Penn-Foster project details D, E and F are replicated at a large scale (4X) on their respective plates.  Same details only larger.  They are not different details.

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JimJames1978

So I've drawn the details as the instructions state (full size and then scaled up for the secondary details), what am I supposed to do now to follow instructions here? I plotted the foundation details drawing on a 22x34 sheet with a 1/2"=1' factor and the image is cut off by more than a quarter. Are you saying that I need to go back and scale the drawing to be 1/2"=1' even though they told us to draw them at actual size and then scale them up? Actual size means 1"=1" no?

 

I do apologize by the way if my last post appeared to be abrasive. I mean no ill and am very grateful for your help. I'm just groaning at the idea of having to go back and re-do the details when I thought I was finally finished.....

Edited by JimJames1978

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ReMark

I've said, and continue to state, the scale factor for Plate 7 needs to be 24.  Once that is the case, if and when the drawing is plotted, at a scale of 1/2"=1'-0" it will, without any problem, fit on a piece of paper that measures 11x17.  How do I know this?  It's the way AutoCAD originally functioned up until the time paper space viewports were introduced (AutoCAD 2000, March 1999).  Title blocks and borders were scaled UP to fit objects drawn at full size then scaled down in the plot dialog box, to fit the paper it was going to be plotted to.

 

Are you telling us that you actually went ahead and plotted a drawing to paper?

 

I no longer have access to a large format plotter capable of plotting a 22x34 or 24x36 drawing so I can't run a test plot of your drawing.  However, this is what I am willing to do.  I would be willing to send you a private message that includes my home email address.  In return you can email me a copy of your Plate 7 drawing, if you so desire, and I will have a look at it.  That's the best I can offer.

Edited by ReMark

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JimJames1978

No I plotted it to a PDF and set the settings to ANSI D with a 1/2"=1' scale factor with it set to the extents of the drawing.

 

I thought you were referring to the scale factor of the title block not the whole drawing. That's what was confusing me. If I tried to scale the title block up by only 24 it wouldn't even touch the second detail in the drawing.


This is what it looks like with the titleblock scaled to 70:

image.thumb.png.6a0b9e5ad8e35dc0fcaa80d66457ad6c.png

Edited by JimJames1978
Edited because I left personal details in.

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ReMark

I opened the drawing you sent me and the first think I did was check the dimensions for the "cut line"(red dashed line).  The dimensions were 64'-2" x 99'-2".  The dimensions should be 22' x 34'.  The scale factor for your title block and border therefore is incorrect.

It appears that the details are scaled correctly.  Unfortunately there are a number of problems with your drawing.  

Edited by ReMark

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ReMark

The following is for anyone who is also faced with problems creating Plate 7 for the Penn-Foster structural project.

For the sake of clarity I created different layers with different colors than the instructions call for.  I also took a couple of other liberties based upon my personnel experience.

1. I centered the anchor bolt on the baseplate.

2. I elected to run the metal decking that is being used in this case as siding vertical not horizontal.

3. The rebar in the footing and pillar (column or pier) was drawn based upon information found here: 

https://www.thecivilengineering.com/spread-footing-or-isolated-footing-reinforcement-detail-what-is-spread-footing/

Feel free to ignore any of the above.  After all, it's your drawing...not mine.  Good luck.

Plate 7 Example.JPG

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Alina Susain

On the off chance that you don't have Appendix H, at that point contact your course teacher and ask that it be messaged to you. Index H contains dimensional information for the bars and channels you will draw as a major aspect of the auxiliary task. Try not to approach me for the reference section as I wasn't an understudy. Be that as it may, dimensional information for basic steel shapes can undoubtedly be found on the Internet with a basic inquiry. Attempt this service Skilled Writing

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