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Yesterday I read an article at the University of Wisconsin website about working to tolerances of one millionth of an inch. Talk about being precise.

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tzframpton

This is exactly what Tank needs, in the DWG file. Just as a reminder to download the PDF file further down the page (fourth section from the bottom). The PDF file has the description of each symbol so there's no guessing or confusion.

Actually when I think of mechanical I tend to equate it more with manufacturing than with HVAC. Thanks.
You are correct; however, there are two different types of mechanical uses. You have "Mechanical HVAC" and "Mechanical Piping". By just saying "Mechanical" you are grouping both trades together, so to be more specific you will clarify by either saying mechanical hvac or mechanical piping.

 

I think the reason it's like this is back in the old days, piping and HVAC went hand in hand, since the only way to cool or heat air was by a hydronic piping system so it was just stated as "mechanical". Now, it's either-or, you can use electricity with refrigerant instead of a chiller/cooling tower with a system of pipes going to a coil. So now it can be separated, you can have just an HVAC unit that's air cooled, or you can have a water cooled system. Also other applications can separate the terminology such as steam piping, which is strictly heat (and VERY hot heat at that) and in no way is considered HVAC, which would classify it as mechanical piping.

 

That's my theory anyways. I would have to ask my father if this is accurate or not, who's been in the business for over 30 years now.

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I've looked at some libraries out there in the past and found them to be insufficient, I took the time to develop my own library tailered to our needs, it's worth looking at what others have done but I'd recommend taking the time to put something together for yourself.

 

As far as the Mechanical discussion, I design entire industrial plants, if its out side the building it's civil, the building is architectural, if its wired its electrical, everything else in the building is mechanical.

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Jack_O'neill
Yesterday I read an article at the University of Wisconsin website about working to tolerances of one millionth of an inch. Talk about being precise.

 

Yeah, well, it would be nice if we could all live in a university situation where anything is possible. Most of us have to live out in the real world where it's common to "measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe". :lol:

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tzframpton
As far as the Mechanical discussion, I design entire industrial plants, if its out side the building it's civil, the building is architectural, if its wired its electrical, everything else in the building is mechanical.

I would argue that Plumbing, Fire Protection, and Refrigeration would be classified as it's own trade and not under Mechanical since they serve different purposes.

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I would argue that Plumbing, Fire Protection, and Refrigeration would be classified as it's own trade and not under Mechanical since they serve different purposes.

 

unfortunately there will always be gray areas like those that require coordination between disciplines but since in the cases you noted, the mechanical aspects drive things I group them under Mechanical, though I am grossly unfamiliar with refrigeration.

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Styk, I have to disagree. Although within the MEP trades the definition of mechanical is more specific as you stated, the definition of "mechanical systems" is a very broad brush term that can be and is still used as Daniel has stated.

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Lets try this font. How does one load the font? My memory is mid-60's, sorry :ouch:.

 

You can copy the TT font into the Windows folder for Fonts, maybe restart the OS if it doesn't show right away.

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tzframpton

Fair enough. I can agree that generally you can classify all of those as mechanical components of a building.

 

I was simply trying to clarify for ReMark though. Since I'm in the mechanical construction industry, and since a commercial building is never built without plumbing, fire protection, HVAC, and if it calls for it hydronic piping, then obviously that necessitates specific trade definitions that are further broken down. I will say this, if a general contractor asks you what trade your company is upon the first coordination meeting and say "I'm Mechanical" when you're putting in fire protection, you'll get an earful.

 

;)

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Fair enough. I can agree that generally you can classify all of those as mechanical components of a building.

 

I was simply trying to clarify for ReMark though. Since I'm in the mechanical construction industry, and since a commercial building is never built without plumbing, fire protection, HVAC, and if it calls for it hydronic piping, then obviously that necessitates specific trade definitions that are further broken down. I will say this, if a general contractor asks you what trade your company is upon the first coordination meeting and say "I'm Mechanical" when you're putting in fire protection, you'll get an earful.

 

;)

 

I've gotten that earful too lol , but they get an earful back 'we can argue over this if you want but I've got a 20 million dollar plant to enginner and I'm not letting a small piece of the puzzle screw up our mechanical process' :)

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Jack_O'neill
Lets try this font. How does one load the font? My memory is mid-60's, sorry :ouch:.

 

If you are using XP:

 

Windows XP

 

 

  1. From the "Start" menu select "Control Panel" and then select the "Appearance and Themes" category.


  2. Select "Fonts" from the "See Also" panel at the left of this screen.


  3. On the "File" menu, select "Install New Font..."


  4. Click the drive and folder that contain the fonts you want to add.


  5. To select more than one font to add, press and hold down the CTRL key, click the fonts you want, then click on "OK"


For Windows 7:

 

Windows 7

There are several ways to install fonts on Windows 7. Here are step-by-step instructions. Keep in mind that you must be an Administrator on the target machine to install fonts.

The easiest way to install a font is to double-click on a font file to open the font preview and select 'Install'.

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tzframpton

Then that's where the divide is - you're in engineering and I'm in construction. To engineers, it's all the same, and I agree with that since it's gas or liquid from point A to point B. It doesn't matter if it's refrigeration, cold/hot water, cold/hot air, gas, etc.... mechanical engineering is all of those. :)

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I'm in mechanical engineering and I utterly HATE that so much crap is considered "Mechanical Engineering".

 

Mechanical - Everything

Wet - Piping and associates part and equipment

Dry - Duct and associated parts and equipment

Piping - Anything that moves a liquid that is not Plumbing (steam, condensate, hydronic, refrigerant, etc)

Plumbing - Anything that moves a liquid that is not Piping (DCW, DHW, Sanitary, Vent, Gas)

...I really don't feel like listing it all out. I just really really REALLY hate the stupid generalizations in this industry. So here's a conversation I had:

 

E: "A package air conditioner is, by definition an air handler. But when you say air handler, you're referring to the big, built-up, walk in units."

Me: "An air handler is anything that handles air, correct?"

E: "Yes."

Me: "So the indoor unit of a ductless split is, by definition, an air handler?"

E: "Yes. Well, no."

Me: "But it handles air."

E: "Correct, but it's not an air handler."

Me: "But you just said if it handles air. Thereby a fan coil is also an air handler."

E: "No, a fan coil is merely a coil, heating or cooling, with a fan."

Me: "So is a package air conditioner, ductless split indoor unit, or built-up walk in unit. They're coils with fans, just different sizes."

E: "The size makes them different."

Me: "What is a Toyota Tundra?"

E: "A truck."

Me: "What is a freightliner?"

E: "A truck."

Me: "They're drastically different sizes but you call them the same. They're also designed by mechanical engineers. Why are you being a hypocrit?"

E: "That's a bad comparison."

Me: "No it's not. You ponder that, I'm gonna go get coffee."

 

That was part of yesterdays daily give-the-engineer-an-aneurysm conversation.

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And we wonder why Scott Adams never runs out of material for Dilbert! There is an endless supply.

 

I can always teel when someone hasnt spent enough time in an office evirnment when they tell me they don't get what's so funny about the Office lol.

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I'm on the construction side of things. We always flame the engineers, lol.

 

I'm on the drafting side. I get flamed by your type while flaming the engineers.

 

I wish more people understood, it's not always us...most of the time, it's what the engineer wants it to look like and despite our hours of arguing that "the field guys would better understand it this way", we get told to do it anyways.

 

Mechanical - If you tell me that you do "Mechanical Engineering", I will always assume machinery-type design. HVAC is flows and associated equipment ... HVAC Engineering ... you're not designing the parts of the units, your picking units to meet your flow criteria.

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